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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
What is racist about it?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Nosher Loyal user 261 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 00:18, Dannydoyle wrote: Maybe not for much longer. Since 1995 the Flag Desecration Amendment has passed the house in each congress, but failed in the senate - last time by only 1 vote.
Escapemaster-in-chief from all sorts of houdingplaces - Finnegans Wake
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
What's the difference between a crime and a "hate" crime?
I under the impression that a hate crime was essentially a regular done with intolerant motives. If so, what was the "regular" crime behind what she did? Or is hate "speech" itself a "crime?"
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 08:58, Nosher wrote: If it DOES eventually pass, I wonder if they would go after Penn and Teller?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It may be inciting hatred between the Muslim and the Christian but neither of them are a race are they? Indeed it seems somewhat racist to assume that Muslims are one race and Christens are another, which is what the charge implies. It seems to me. .
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 01:16, balducci wrote: I didn't "accuse" you of not knowing the words, I simply pointed out that you DID NOT know the words. Big difference. Also, I fully understand what is going on, I simply see it a different way and agree with Lobo. Not to nit pick but I bet we find the flag/leaves thing ironic in the same way. GDW they will not go after P&T. Have you EVER seen the bit in question? My guess is no because if so you would never have asked the qustion. It is a CELEBRATION of what it means to be an American and protected by a doccument like the Bill of Rights. Watch it some time. It is inspirational actually.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 09:23, Dannydoyle wrote: Danny, why are you constantly making assumptions about me and what I say? YES, I have seen the P&T bit, and I am FULLY aware that it is a celebration. My point was that I would NOT be surprised if they tried to go after them or others doing something similar because many people have a habit of completely missing the point. Did you not see the West Wing episode which had people reacting to them doing the bit in the white house? Yeah, its fiction, but, like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if reality imitated art. And, Danny, if you ever have an urge to make an assumption about something I am saying, just think what Penn would say. I pretty much agree with him on almost everything.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Wow if you have seen it you didn't really pay attention. THROUGHOUT the routine they are reverant, talk about the Bill of Rights and are reverant to the flag at all times. MOST OF ALL IT IS NEVER REALLY BURNED and they show that! WHAT EXACTLY can they go after them for? Being patriotic?
How can you possibly agree with Penn when you have no idea what he is doing? Yea many have a habit of missing the point, look in any mirror.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
There isn't any reason that the U.S. would go after P&T for the routine with the American Flag. Gdw didn't just miss the point he missed the boat, ship, No he missed a whole Naval fleet on that one.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 10:20, Dannydoyle wrote: Jesus, again I am FULLY aware of the POINT of the routine. That had NOTHING to do with what I was saying. IF there was a flag burning bill passed, they wouldn't be concerned with what you were "saying" by "burning" the flag, again, EXACTLY like the way they portrayed it in the West Wing. I am NOT talking about what P&T are saying, how the **** can you guys be so clearly misconstruing what I am saying? Again, what I am saying is that I would NOT be surprised if some people acted with the same irrational reaction trying to see if they actually burnt the flagor not, irrelevant of what they were saying. My entire point was that I could see OTHERS missing the point and message and just freaking out over them "burning" the flag. There have already been ridiculous semantical arguments over what would even be considered "burning the flag." Flags with the wrong number of stripes, or stars, etc. Some people can be insane about this, and that was my freaking point.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
THEY NEVER BURN THE FLAG AND THEY SHOW THEY NEVER BURN THE FLAG! This is the fine point you seem to miss. Uhg
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 09:23, Dannydoyle wrote: Okay, so, like me, you support laws that restrict (at least in some situations) the burning of leaves and find it ironic that similar laws do not protect flags and the constitution from being burned. Good to know that we are on the same page.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Here's a link to the flag bit (for anyone who may not have seen it). The second video is the longer version from the Vegas act:
http://paulharrisonline.blogspot.com/200......ing.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On 2010-11-30 11:09, gdw wrote: Complaints to the FCC support your view. http://www.governmentattic.org/docs/FCC_......ries.pdf Excerpt: "The Supreme Court also says that burning the flag has a tendency to incite violence, thus justifying the use of violence against those who bum the flag. Burning the flag is an act of violence. They have no idea the pain they inflict on America's veterans when they bum the flag. If I ever meet Penn and Teller I am going to obscenely smash their heads in. Some say violence is obscene, actions that provoke obscenity are obscene."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 11:16, balducci wrote: I think that it is what the flag stands for in America and the Constitution. You CAN burn those objects because of the place we live. I choose not to out of reverance. It is a personal choice which is spelled out in the Constitution and represented symbolically in our flag. I support the right of anyone to burn them, but would encourage them against it. It is ironic yes, and that is what I meant. But it is where I prefer to live. Irony and all. I mean yea you would think that something that people hold in reverence would be more protected than something that falls as trash from the trees every year. But I am sort of cool with it not happening. I prefer the freedom.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Lawyers, it would seem to me that the burning of the Koran in this context might come under the rubric of fighting words? Don't know for sure, but I would think a reasonable case could be made under certain conditions.
Lobo wrote: Whether or not it's wrong wasn't addressed in the story; the more interesting (to me) question is whether it's something you should be arrested for in a relatively free country. Understandably you have a professional interest in one aspect of this story. But really, the more relevant and important aspects are: what is going on with this child? What is going on with this school? How can we help people to be tolerant of one another? What are the dynamics going on that cause this hatred? Why is it so much easier to debate the abstract legality, rather than to deal with the situation as it is? I'm not blaming anyone in particular; or maybe I am, including myself. Whether P and T burned a flag or not really doesn't help solve the very real painful issues that are happening because of religious and ethnic intolerance.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 11:15, Dannydoyle wrote: No, I did NOT. Jesus. Again, that was part of my freaking point. That people clearly have acted irrationally to things like this before. Would there be a reaction if I took a book of blank pages, and put a koran cover on it and burnt it? Or if I made a video which entirely simulated burning a koran, but never actually burnt it, do you think that, if say, that was done in england, people would not react irrationally citing there hate crime legislation? That is my ****ing point. That there would most definitely be idiots who would freak out just the same, as they themselves would completely miss the point of the act, probably claiming "it doesn't matter, it's the principle."
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
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On 2010-11-30 11:32, balducci wrote: THANK YOU. Why the hell is it so *** hard for some people to get what I am ACTUALLY saying rather than inferring their own jump to prejudices against me? Especially hen we actually agree on so ***ed much: Quote:
On 2010-11-30 11:38, Dannydoyle wrote: Agreed.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
The issue is not that. The issue is are we free to be intolerant within certain limits. Does a government have the right to tell us what to believe? Do they have the right to declare this or that a "sacred object" and therefore it is a hate crime to burn it? I hope we live in a more free country than that. I will live with the intolerance, it is the lack of freedom I do not wish to endour.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-30 11:58, landmark wrote: Or, perhaps the intolerance of/by religions? Quote:
On 2010-11-30 12:00, Dannydoyle wrote: Again, agreed.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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