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critter
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Yeah, but that's the problem. Him getting caught is what let us all know that they were all doing that. That's when America really had to say, "Dude! Washington is asterisked up!"
I don't trust the lot of 'em. Would I have if it weren't for Tricky Dick? Who knows.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-12-08 00:58, gaddy wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-07 22:49, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-07 20:46, gaddy wrote:
I'm not going to bother with trying to convince you.your mind is clearly made up. Enjoy your ignorance.


You do put forth an arrogant tone don't you now? LOL.

So let me ask you something gaddy. Lets pretend just for a second that someone like Oswald was running "spy missions". Really. What were they exactly? You show no proof other than a description of a course at a college. The myths put forth in your contention have been dealt with handily. Live happily in your own ignorance. I see nothing on that web page that said the first thing like you said about spy missions, her father or whatever you are talking about. You need to get a grip. It has been PROVEN he is the only shooter, and really to argue that he was a nut is pretty silly.

He may have been a puppet, but he was a puppet who killed the president alone.

Why so angry about this?
You say that I must have gotten my information from Oliver Stone, and you wonder why I'm angry?

Danny, that link I gave you is the description of the graduate level history class on presidential assassinations and political murders that I attended in college. I know you have very little respect for higher education, you've indirectly stated that on several occasions in the past, but we did a lot more in that class than watch "JFK".

I've read more books, both supporting the Warren commission's analysis, and challenging it, than... Well, probably more than ANYONE on this forum. My opinion on the subject is a very well considered one, not based on some knee-jerk ideological reaction or a parroting of what I heard on the FOX news or The History Channel.

And as for my "arrogant" statement above (targeted at rs1963, and not you, but I suppose it still applies), why the hell would I bother trying to have a discussion with you on this subject when you are so clearly unaware of key elements of the story, such as the "second Oswald" and Marina's role in the "intelligence vector" of Oswald's life- yet you're so handily ready to make sweeping proclamations about what's been "proven' and what hasn't...

In the history of the USA, there is no mystery that even comes close to being as puzzling or as completely unsolved as the Kennedy assassination. Regardless of who did it, my personal opinion is that this was the beginning of a very steep decline for the USA stemming from the lack of confidence and faith in the government that is has engendered in the general population. This matter continues to deserve as much consideration, and as much study, as anyone with an interest in this country cares to give it.


Do you fully comprehend how much information there is on the assasination? Seriously. Over 5 million pages if I am not wrong, and I am not talking about the nonsense books. I am talking about actual documents in the government. Now if you take ANY 5 million pages of ANYTHING and you will find things that make sense and things that do not.

Your problem gaddy is you make proclomations that are just not true. (For example my view of higher education for one. That is just ignorant. Being in posession of at least one advanced degree it is ironic that you seem to think otherwise. If this is an example of your vast deductive skills I am suspect. Wow he does not care how well he spells, so he must hate higher education. Dead wrong.) Show me in the actual investigations, not assertions in some book that someone with an opinion wrote gaddy. Seriously. The information is there just read it.

gaddy, in one of those higher education courses I so hate Vincent Bugliosi was a speaker. (To be fair he was speaking about Manson.) I knew he was writing a book on JFK because a few years earlier he had done the mock-trial for the BBC. I was in charge of getting him to and from, hither dither and yar so it was fun to get to talk with him. Did you ever read his 1600 page tomb on the subject? I doubt it because it will challenge your precious world view. http://hnn.us/articles/41490.html

It answers EVERY question you put forth. It debunks EVERY piece of evidence you think that you have.

Interestingly I was talking with him about what I was writing for class, about why conspiracy theories exist. His contention was that along with giving you someone to blame, or someone to join, along with needing to add weight to the Oswald side as I mentioned earlier, there was one more componant of why some are so adherant to conspiracy theories. The need to be the "smartest person in the room" syndrome. No matter how many times they are PROVEN wrong they make the assertions till you tire of refuting them. Then if you persist you get "enjoy your ignorance" from them.

I guess he was a bit more dead on in some cases than I thought.

In the end it is so "puzzling" because YOU ARE MAKING IT THAT WAY. You have to fabricate and distort evidence to do so but there ya go. Graduate level course or not aparantly it is bunk. Sorry you are clinging to it so arrogantly.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Destiny
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The problem with conspiracies is that so few people can keep secrets.

I'm sure if there'd been a conspiracy in the Kennedy assasination something would have come out years before.
Dannydoyle
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Absolutely. He points this out in that interview. 44 years and no "Wikileaks" and such, nothing from anyone. Go figure.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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The Final Report of the House Select Committee on Assassinations states it found that in the murder of President John F. Kennedy that there was a "probable conspiracy". So even they say those who hold there was no conspiracy and have a lone nut theory are probably wrong.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Destiny
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I actually love conspiracies and look for them everywhere - but I am usually disappointed.

Where are all the conspiracies and earth shattering conspiracies I expected from Wikileaks? Every day I leap to the latest cables with trembling anticipation only to find yet again it's stuff everyone knew anyway.
gaddy
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Quote:
On 2010-12-08 09:09, Dannydoyle wrote:
Do you fully comprehend how much information there is on the assasination? Seriously. Over 5 million pages if I am not wrong, and I am not talking about the nonsense books. I am talking about actual documents in the government. Now if you take ANY 5 million pages of ANYTHING and you will find things that make sense and things that do not.
yes I do. I had to read a small fraction of it and it made my head swim.
Quote:
Your problem gaddy is you make proclomations that are just not true. (For example my view of higher education for one. That is just ignorant. Being in posession of at least one advanced degree it is ironic that you seem to think otherwise.
say what you like, but this is my opinion of you. I'm glad you think I'm wrong, I'm glad you feel you're not one of those anti-intellectuals who wallow in their own ignorance, but things you've said in the past and your general attitude lead me to this opinion.
Quote:
If this is an example of your vast deductive skills I am suspect. Wow he does not care how well he spells, so he must hate higher education. Dead wrong.) Show me in the actual investigations, not assertions in some book that someone with an opinion wrote gaddy. Seriously. The information is there just read it.
feel free to do the same, but I've done my work on this subject.

Quote:
gaddy, in one of those higher education courses I so hate Vincent Bugliosi was a speaker. (To be fair he was speaking about Manson.) I knew he was writing a book on JFK because a few years earlier he had done the mock-trial for the BBC. I was in charge of getting him to and from, hither dither and yar so it was fun to get to talk with him. Did you ever read his 1600 page tomb on the subject? I doubt it because it will challenge your precious world view.
No, I have not read that specific, singular piece on the subject (written about 12 years after my course study on the subject), and from the way you worded this statement I gather that you did not either. Perhaps I'll take a look at it, but my interest in re-opening this case is not all that great.

Quote:
It answers EVERY question you put forth. It debunks EVERY piece of evidence you think that you have.
The problem with statements like this is that you THINK that your guy has adequately debunked EVERY piece of evidence I think I have; whereas others do not feel that such "debunkings" (nice pejorative term, by the way) hold much water, the ones that do simple answer to specific pieces of evidence (out of context, btw) and very few of them bother to address the bigger picture of Oswald's involvement in the Intelligence Community before and immediately preceding the assassination.

Quote:
Interestingly I was talking with him about what I was writing for class, about why conspiracy theories exist. His contention was that along with giving you someone to blame, or someone to join, along with needing to add weight to the Oswald side as I mentioned earlier, there was one more componant of why some are so adherant to conspiracy theories. The need to be the "smartest person in the room" syndrome. No matter how many times they are PROVEN wrong they make the assertions till you tire of refuting them. Then if you persist you get "enjoy your ignorance" from them.

I guess he was a bit more dead on in some cases than I thought.
Yawn...

I have no need to prove any intellectual prowess.

I most certainly do not feel I'm the "smartest person in the room". Perhaps one of the more curious and desirous of the truth persons in this particular room, but "intelligence"? no. This is not about feeling smart, this is about getting to the truth of one of the most terrible chapters in american history.

And my opinion is that the jury is still out, although there are a number of people who wish the door could close on this forever.

If I heard such evidence that could convince me of the validity of the Warren commission (or rather the premises of the report. Nothing will ever convince me that that piece of hack work is worth the paper it's printed on...) , I would accept it. I simply have not.

Quote:
In the end it is so "puzzling" because YOU ARE MAKING IT THAT WAY. You have to fabricate and distort evidence to do so but there ya go. Graduate level course or not aparantly it is bunk. Sorry you are clinging to it so arrogantly.
Reverse this statement and I could apply it to you, sir.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
RS1963
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Quote:
On 2010-12-08 01:41, MagicSanta wrote:
No biggie, they all did that and worse. He just got caught.


That is the truth!!
RS1963
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Quote:
On 2010-12-08 11:28, tommy wrote:
The Final Report of the House Select Committee on Assassinations states it found that in the murder of President John F. Kennedy that there was a "probable conspiracy". So even they say those who hold there was no conspiracy and have a lone nut theory are probably wrong.


That doesn't prove anything. Screw House Select Committee's findings. Even today a good many of members of The Senate. Congress, The U.S. Supreme Court. Would be hard pressed to find a bugs butt while looking for it under a microscope. They don't have a clue on much of anything.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2010-12-08 11:15, Destiny wrote:
The problem with conspiracies is that so few people can keep secrets.

I'm sure if there'd been a conspiracy in the Kennedy assasination something would have come out years before.


Destiny,

I can prove your above post to be incorrect in two words. Jimmy Hoffa

Actually probably the same group of people involved. Of course that is my theroy...

By the way in an earlier post I mentioned how people like this help to keep things secret. Bury the possible leads.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
RS1963
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Aces it's no secret that the Mob had Hoffa taken care of. Just who ordered the hit on him and who made the hit, and what they did with his body is the question.
acesover
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RS1963,

Yes that is my point as I spoke about Destiny's post as to people keeping secrets. This is one of the highest profile secrets on record. Yet no one knows who,ordered it or who did it or where the body is. So my point is that the secrets were definitely kept. By what means no one knows.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
gaddy
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Yes, we know how much you hate the government.
Quote:
On 2010-12-08 14:57, RS1963 wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-08 11:28, tommy wrote:
The Final Report of the House Select Committee on Assassinations states it found that in the murder of President John F. Kennedy that there was a "probable conspiracy". So even they say those who hold there was no conspiracy and have a lone nut theory are probably wrong.


That doesn't prove anything. Screw House Select Committee's findings. Even today a good many of members of The Senate. Congress, The U.S. Supreme Court. Would be hard pressed to find a bugs butt while looking for it under a microscope. They don't have a clue on much of anything.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
MagicSanta
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Are you refering to Hoffa's body?
Dannydoyle
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Oh so now the mob had Hoffa and the president hit? Oh lord it gets better and better.

IF the mob had Kennedy hit then why would they let Oswald get captured? See you guys can't manage to figure it out but it has been proven time and again he was the ONLY shooter in the plaza that day. Sorry to burst all your collective bubbles but the audio and video pretty well says it all.

So knowing he was the ONLY shooter, and thinking the mob did it, why did they do this particular hit with such poor execution? I mean why was Oswald buying a 13 dollar rifle through the mail that could easily be traced to him? Why did he have about 10 bucks in his pocket and try to HAIL A CAB from the hit? Why wasn't there a car waiting to take him from the scene and probably to his death if you knew the first thing about the mob? Why oh why would the mob, back when they were at the absolute hight of their power and prowess, be so 3 Stooges like when it comes to executon of the plan? I mean the plan would require HUGE amounts of planning! Now suddenly they forget that Oswald would be in custody? Come on.

As for the CIA gaddy, there is absolutely NO credible evidence Oswald had the first thing to do with either them or the mob. Despite what conspiracy lovers want you to belive we know that the FBI checked this guy out. Even [assassination researcher Harold] Weisberg conceded that the FBI checked out every breath [Oswald] ever breathed, from the moment he arrived back to the States from the Soviet Union on June 13, 1962 to the day of the assassination. They accounted for everything this guy did. They found no evidence after 25,000 interviews, that he had any connection with any of these groups.

gaddy you make broad assertions with no facts to back them up. Show me the secret mission stuff you are talking about, show me anything you are talking about. The science is pretty settled. (Yea sorry to inform you but I have also done my homework on the subject, but instead I chose to use facts and science as opposed to supposition and a feeling.)
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RS1963
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On 2010-12-08 16:33, acesover wrote:
RS1963,

Yes that is my point as I spoke about Destiny's post as to people keeping secrets. This is one of the highest profile secrets on record. Yet no one knows who,ordered it or who did it or where the body is. So my point is that the secrets were definitely kept. By what means no one knows.


I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not. Hard to tell on the web sometimes. But I have never said I hate the government. Just look at the T.S.A. threads.
RS1963
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No Danny The Mob Hit Hoffa, There are those that think the Mob is tied into Kennedy's death however. As for Hoffa it's more of a no brainer to connect what group got rid of J.H.
RS1963
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Quote:
On 2010-12-08 17:00, MagicSanta wrote:
Are you refering to Hoffa's body?


Not really because there may not be enough of Jimmy's body too have bugs on it. I was just saying that some of the people in those areas of the Gov aren't the highest quality of bulb in the package.
Dannydoyle
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Ok, but then again the mob is FAMOUS FOR KEEPING SECRETS! Not so much in our government. And as I said neither the mob nor the CIA would have anything at all to do with Oswald. (and for that matter RUBY! He was NOT mob connected.)
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
acesover
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Lets be realstic here. With a plot (hit) of this stature would you really use someone connected with the mob if the mob was instsigating it? They are not about to send and I do not mean this in a derogatory way aganist Italians going to send Quito Bellodini the known hit man to do the president of the United States. However whomever I send I want dispatched as soon as the hit is over. I think that got fouled up and that is where Ruby came into play. Do I have any proof of this..of course I do..and if you belieive that or if anyone says that they have proof positive of this whole thing they are lying to whomever will listen. When I say proof, would anyone you know swear on their life or that of their loved ones that they know what really happened that day? There are countless theories and there is mountains of supposedly proof. However all that proof can be disputed in any court of law and any decision would have to be a guess. If you had a jury of 12 people with no agenda you would not get a unanimous vote of what happened that day.

In no way discount a mob implication as you must know that the mob had it in for both Bobby and John. Did the mob have it done? I do not know, but I would not discount it. I give the mob the vote more than a one man Oswald thing. Is it conjecture on my part? Absoutely and anyone here whatever their opinion is also conjecture. Are some better informed than others? Of course. However there is no one here that can absoutely swear that they know the truth.

Please do not delude yourself that you know because you don't and neither do I.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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