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samuwel New user 60 Posts |
Let me explain what I mean...
You're mid-routine and you find that you need a card signing. You casually reach up into the air and a marker appears at your fingertips. You don't draw very little attention to the fact and carry on with the routine before the audience have time to fully react (although they will register what has happened), and act casually, as if you routinely do this kind of thing. Does this sort of casual display of magic serve to reinforce the fact that you are truly magical and can really do the things they are seeing and assist in building your rapport with your audience? Or does it throw away a potential magic/reaction moment? |
Johnny Butterfield Veteran user 378 Posts |
As with most things, I'd say "it depends".
Does it make the routine stronger? Would the routine be stronger if a big deal was made of the marker appearing? Does it reinforce your character?
The current economic crisis is due to all the coins I've vanished.
The poster formerly known as Fman111. |
randirain Inner circle Fort Worth, TX 1650 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-02 17:55, samuwel wrote: Very good questions. I would say yes, but!! With anything subtle, you are going to have people miss it. So it will only work with the people who notice it. But a little is always better than none. Randi |
Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
This reminds me of the Cardini style- just going about his business with magic "happening" to him. Of course, he did not seem to be in control of the magic, rather at its mercy, but I really like his routining. I think it could make a performance very strong if done right...
Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Stonewick New user 81 Posts |
Take care it does not interrupt the flow of what you are doing.
Or create a distraction that causes the audience to lose track of what was occurring just be before the incidental magic. The off-beat magical moment should serve the larger routine and definitely not complicate what you are trying to create. Just my 2 cents. Best of luck. |
Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
That is excellent advice Christopher. I think you are spot on.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Most replies are pretty much to the point. That which does not add, surely detracts. However, in the example cited, the signing of a card, in many cases happens at natural break in the routine. In such a case, this brief interlude does not disrupt the flow any more than the actual signing of the card, at which time any number of side bits could occur, often coming from the spectators themselves. Smoothly resuming the main plot of the trick is hardly an issue.
In most cases, I think that incidental magic should be kept incidental. It is only when the magician creates the fatal flaw of heavily spotlighting it, does it risk colliding with the main routine. One superb example of such an incident not conflicting at all was in Del Ray's stage act. At one point, a card case placed upon the table falls to the floor. Although noticible, it is glaringly obvious in contrast to the perfection of the act up to that point. The blooper is fixed by a quick nod of his head, and the case jumps back up to the table where it is obviously "supposed" to be. This is a completely incidental effect, and hardly disrupts the flow. Key point again, is that it happens at a point that falls outside the chain of events critical to achieving a singular effect. Had it happened in the middle of the card fans, it would have been very out of place.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
I have nothing to add to Christopher and Michael's posts and agree about disrupting the flow of the routine.
Great advice. |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Is that where you keep your pens?
Anything else you keep there? Are you consistent about it? What would be different if you simply reached down to the table and picked it up from there (even though it was not there before) or pulled it out of the cardcase after not finding one in your pockets?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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samuwel New user 60 Posts |
The pen situation was just an example off the top of my head to illustrate what I was talking about (probably not the best).
Although in terms of being consistent, the pen should later be vanished in the same way rather than simply put back into pockets along with the card case. I'd like to think that producing something from the air draws enough attention to it that it will be noticed, but can be played such that you aren't making a big deal out of the production. You just do it and move on. The day after starting this thread I actually stumbled upon a section in Darwin Ortiz' Strong Magic about incidental magic effects in a section regarding underselling the climax. To quote - "incidental effects are minor compared to the fullfledged effects they're part of. To play them up too much would make them appear trivial; treating them as trivial makes them all the more effective" He then goes on to discuss the reason for doing these incidental effects - the subtextual message created by them - "such impossibilities are second nature to you; they happen so often you hardly take any notice" I think this is a good summary of the purpose of this kind of incidental magic, but as Christopher and Michael have added, one must keep in mind the overall effect, such that these incidental displays aren't detrimental to the routine. But ultimately, cleverly weaving these snippets of casual magic throughout your act creates this underlying messags which says to the audience "I do these things so casually - what else am I capable of?" |
Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
I like the idea of, as you put it, casual magic an have given it thought before.
A face down card turning face up by itself as a revelation, a prop appearing or moving to your hand, etc, etc. I've considered what a real magician might do. Things needed would be magically produced; used as needed; then vanished, given away or transformed into something else that is needed. Not an easy task to do these things consistently in a show. |
61magic Special user Sacramento California 775 Posts |
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On 2010-12-05 08:16, Jaz wrote: I can't help but laugh whenever I see the phrase used in the context of the magic we all perform. A real magician would not be worried about make a pen appear to sign a prediction card he would more likely be making millions of dollars appear in his bank account. For the original question Nay...
Professor J. P. Fawkes
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-05 09:17, 61magic wrote: This may be true but then a powerful Mage wouldn't need money either now would he/she. I'm sure a mage wouldn't likely mess with cards, cup and balls and the props we do. What he/she would do would depend on the strength of their magic and their needs. |
Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-05 09:17, 61magic wrote: Tunnel vision. Assume for a second that the magician was a victim of the magic, rather than the source of it. The rules change.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Michael Kamen Inner circle Oakland, CA 1315 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-05 14:09, Michael Baker wrote: So true. Think also of the Trickster who makes no apology for stirring great interest in that which is inexplicable, yet trivial.
Michael Kamen
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Years ago at an outdoors performance at Lake Tahoe, the magician was bothered by a very persitent chipmonk that wanted to be part of the show. He tried to shoo it away, tossed it a snack, ignored it -- all very hillarious to the audience. Finally, he tossed a scarf over it -- snatched it away and the pest had disappeared! It was the most discussed part of the show. Did he frighten it away, or ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
I think of Tommy Wonder's performance of the Ambitious Card to Ring Box from his British Symposium Lecture. The incidental effects included the card case shrinking, a small Sharpie pen that growing, and the deck being sqeezed to fit into the shrunken case. Using the little additions as incidental pieces seems to have great impact.
Interestingly, though, in Tommy Wonder's later version (on _Visions of Wonder_), the incidental magic is dropped from the Card to Ring Box routine. The newer, simplified version has increased layers of attention direction and greater dramatic build. I'm especially glad that he dropped "Squeeze" as it was a little anti-climactic after the appearance of the card in the ring box.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
I am always surprised at how fast magicians are to limit themselves and their characters by stopping their thinking too early. Every writer dealing with a super hero has to create limits and contraindications for his character's powers.
Otherwise the plots would be all deus ex machina--the godlike powers decide every question. Kryptonite has to be invented by the author of Superman stories, in order to introduce conflict and challenge. Why is a man of real power electing to demonstrate minor miracles for minor money to people he doesn't know? That is the kind of story and character question that an actor or a writer would jump on in a second. Magicians seem to run from them. |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 05:27, Whit Haydn wrote: could not this apply to most people in what they choose to do for a living? Why does any person of real power as a parent or friend spend his life making trivial junk for low pay so as to be able to buy more trivial junk to placate lazy kids who never learned to read? Why do people stop developing their character in real life, choosing instead a jumble of deceptions and lies?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Is life real?
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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