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jamiesalinas Special user Houston 728 Posts |
Tonight, I, along with several friends attended a Victorian style seance in Galveston, Texas. The advertisement did not give out a lot of information. See the links:
http://www.witcheryonline.com/ http://www.witcheryonline.com/documents/VictorianSeance2.pdf I purchased an observer ticket and was not seated in the circle. There were approximately 12 sitters at the table. Two of them were mediums. There was a host who gave a short introduction stating that there would be no trickery and a very brief history introduction about Victorian seances. The room was lit with a large candelabra and many small candles around the table. All of the lights were turned out and we began much like a Hollywood seance. After the mediums indicated that spirits were present, they asked if anyone wanted to contact any specific people. The end result was one woman crying and an older woman needing medical attention. At first, I thought everyone at the table were actors but an ambulance arrived to treat the older woman. What are your thoughts on these types of seances? Jamie Salinas
Jamie Salinas
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Dealing with people's loss and grief is something very serious. People don't understand how vulnerable they are. When death rips someone from our lives it leaves a wound that never heals. People think they can move on, but the pain can all come flooding back. This is something predators have known since the dawn of civilization. It is remarkably easy to devastate people by using their loss. A seance like this is not something to be taken lightly.
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weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
Was it entertainment or something else, like the medium John Edwards show? If entertainment, I think it is best to not contact any specific people for those present because it is just too messy to deal with things that happen like this and it sort of ruins it for others. However, if you are a medium that wants to do this kind of stuff just be prepared to deal with people's reactions and don't leave anyone hanging at the end. How did the mediums handle this with everyone else?
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
I have no opinion of that type of seance per se, I think there are a lot of variables and it depends on a lot of things.
I personally am not interested in being the contact to someone's departed persons. One thing that I do is use a hypnotic guided visualization where people can meet a loved one or a spirit guide in their own inner realms. This allows for 'setting the stage' so to speak and setting up a positive experience. I'm also curious, with weepinwil, as to how the mediums handled this.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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jamiesalinas Special user Houston 728 Posts |
This was a John Edwards style seance. There were two mediums seated at the innner circle table. At first, I thought we were watching a type of theatrical play as there were 20 "observers". I hope they have learned a lesson and will not do this type of thing again. They essentially preyed upon the vulnerable and caused some emotional pain for two of the sitters. I went for two reasons. One, I have never been to a seance other than the ones I conduct and two, I wanted to see what the "competition" was doing as this is about an hour outside of Houston and I am looking to expanding to Galveston.
Jamie Salinas
Jamie Salinas
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
WOW! That whole "sitters must be dressed in Victorian attire" thing implies a fun evening full of laughs. What was the reaction of the people running this thing when the sitters fell apart? Were they surprised? Or was this what they wanted? It sounds like they were completely unprepared for this outcome.
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Mr Timothy Gray Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts |
Earlier in the day, I had the opportunity to stop by The Witchery and speak with the owners about the seance. I had wanted to attend, but when I discovered it was not a theatrical sitting, I opted out. What a shame, I should have stayed!
From the conversation I had with the owners, I would say they had the best of intentions in regards to the sitters for that evening.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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jamiesalinas Special user Houston 728 Posts |
I believe they (people conducting the seance) were expecting to give a "John Edwards" type experience, but when you get someone who is vulnerable and you claim to be able to speak to their dead family and friends, what are you expecting? I am sure they had the "best of intentions" and probably a majority of the time, the sitters walk away very happy. At one point in the seance, "Satan" made an "appearance". Now up until one woman started crying, I figured the whole event was a play and all of the sitters in the inner circle were actors.
I hope this experience has opened the eyes to the "psychics" of what real harm they can do! Mr. Woodrow, my next theatrical is January 23 in Houston. Visit http://www.HoustonSeance.com for more information. P.S.: I will not be contacting any dead relatives or friends. Jamie Salinas Also, I will not be contacting Satan! LOL Jamie Salinas
Jamie Salinas
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handa Inner circle Pittsburgh, PA 1357 Posts |
It's really hard to follow the "Thumper's Mother Rule" on this one.
I'll spare you the details and my opinion and just say that my own wife became sufficiently moved to an emotional outburst complete with tears and uncontrollable sobbing at a well-presented theatrical seance. She is a non-believer and the information was not accurate, but the facts don't matter when you strike an emotional chord in the right way. I can only imagine how devasating something half as good as we experienced would be to a room of people with total buy-in. Chris |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
First of all, it's "John Edward," not "Edwards."
John Edwards is a politician (whose wife recently passed away due to cancer). John Edward is a medium. Second, I suspect the mediums for this particular séance were "shut-eye." In my experience, it is the shut-eyes that do the most harm, emotion-wise. Open-eyes are far more careful with how they present their material.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
And in case anyone is interested, John Edward is his first and middle name.
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Mr Timothy Gray Veteran user Rue d'Auseil 364 Posts |
Is Peter his last name?
Ultimately, I think this is a case of misguided advertisement. The Victorian Seance took place at the same time as Galveston's very popular Victorian festival, Dickens on the Strand. The proprietors of the shop saw an opportunity to do their thing. Certainly the ticket price was a way to cash in on the heavy flow of tourists the festival brings to the island, which has been the victim to a severe economic depression due to the hurricane two years ago. I'm not defending the steep price of admission, and I certainly don't know if the proprietors of the shop have succeeded in conjuring up a few dead aunt Sally's in the past -- but this sort of thing is liable to awaken deep emotions -- emotions of which the sitters were very likely to know would be awaken. The medium isn't always the one to blame. I think magicians take the moral high ground in this sort of issue far too frequently -- and, truthfully, does it ever really make a difference? People will always find something to believe in, people will always pay, and there will always be someone there willing to take cash, check, or card.
Yr. Obdt. Svt.,
Mr Timothy Gray Specializing in the Occult Arts of Fortune Telling, Magic & Mediumship; Est. 1986 |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
The problem is the people have no idea how vulnerable loss can make them. It is not their fault if they go to a seance thinking it will we an evening of spooky amusement and end up with sorrow and emotional pain because the person conducting the seance didn't know how dangerous this kind of persentation can be. This is something I address every night in Play Dead. Unless you have done a "talking with the dead" style presentation it is hard to understand how volatile this kind of material can be. This has nothing to do with what people will believe. It is about understanding what the consequences of this kind of presentation can be and taking responsibility when doing this kind of presentation.
If someone wants to do a talking to the dead presenation, that's their choice. But they have to understand that they are playing with emotional fire and take the blame if someone gets burned. |
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EVILDAN Inner circle 1279 Posts |
The issue with loss is not the only factor to consider. Faith is a strong factor too. If you have someone that's very religious and you do something that triggers the belief that they just witnessed something evil take place, that can set them off the edge.
Also, some people with no real belief system in place can be led to believe something is real if it's strong and spiritual in nature. I guess that's how cults get started. We've witnessed both occurances happen in the seances I used to do with two friends. Since then I've decided to walk another path. I don't want to deal with people's problems or baggage.
by EVILDAN....
"The Coin Board Book" - moves and routines with the coin panel board. - http://www.lybrary.com/the-coin-board-book-p-827955.html "SLASHER - A Horror Whodunnit" - a bizarre close-up routine based on Bob Neale's "Sole Survivor." PM me for more info. "Zombie Town" - a packet effect about how a small town turned into zombies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJhcoJtyOM |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Also, that people want to believe, do believe, and spend their money on it, is in many ways irrelevant.
One's personal bad behavior is not justified by either thoughts or actions of others. Claiming that it's OK to take such advantage, whether for profit or not, is an ethical cop-out. Some religious types call it "sin".
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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jamiesalinas Special user Houston 728 Posts |
First of all...my mistake adding the "s" to Mr. Edward but I am sure all of you knew that I meant the medium and not the politician. Secondly, I gladly paid the $15.00 fee (which should have been higher in my opinion) to attend and I did not disrupt the event in any way. I did not push my beliefs nor did I belittle anyone's beliefs at the event. I most certianly did not tell anyone that I am a magician. My seances begin with the phrase, "Those that believe, no explanation is necessary, those that do not, no explanation will suffice." I also use this as my closing line as well. Despite my seances being advertised as theatrical, I do have many believers that do experience "paranormal activity" as well as non-believers. This means that I did my job well.
My point is that if you are going to try to contact someone's loved one, friend or family, you better be prepared for this type of response. Read what Todd has posted above. That sums it all up perfectly. Well said Todd! Also, congratulations on the success of "Play Dead"! BTYW: The satan part when one woman was crying and another praying was way over the top! Jamie Salinas
Jamie Salinas
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
It's amusing to read that you thought it was a play when you saw those sitters fall apart. I'm not surprised.
One night during the early run of the workshops for Play Dead, I brought a man up for the spirit message part of the show. When he saw his mother's name appear he dropped to his knees and wept. I threw the rest of the text of that section out the window and dealt with what he was going through. I brought him around and later he actually thanked me for shining light on how vulnerable we can be. What's amusing was that some magicians in the audience came up to me after that show and commented that they thought this guy was a stooge and was overacting! I have now included in the show talking about this incident and it provides a strong transition to the darker elements of the performance. What follow it is the talking to the dead section in the show. I take people to the point where they are feeling true loss and then remind them that this is just a cruel trick done in place where all is false and fun. I even have an audience member do a reading on another audience member just to show how easy it is and how much power this gives us over another individual. I make a point with this section in the show, and it is the moment that the show goes beyond entertainment and becomes theater. I couldn't do this section in an act, but the theater is the perfect place for it. Some might think I am insulting people's beliefs, but what I am insulting it fraud presented as truth. I respect the right of people to believe what they want, but that doesn't mean I have respect what they believe. I apologize if this is starting to move off topic. |
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jamiesalinas Special user Houston 728 Posts |
Actually Todd, I thought it was a play up to the point where the woman started to cry. At that point, I thought she must be a great actress or she was feeling real sorrow for this "curse" she has on her family. I thought the mediums were bad actors. I noticed one gentleman in the inner circle smile at one point and quickly close his eyes so that he would not laugh during one of the possessions. Immediately after the circle was broken, the male medium stood up and made a sound like he was going to vomit, covered his mouth and ran out of the room.
My only issue is playing up the curse part after the woman stated to cry and the mediums indicating that Satan was present. My purpose of the post was not to bash anyone's beliefs but to warn as to what can happend if you play with people's emotions and how you could incite a medical emergency if you are not careful. Jamie Salinas
Jamie Salinas
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jdmagic357 Special user 737 Posts |
Sounds to me like the seance was successful in moving the audience from where they were to another place. That is the definition of art so I would have to give kudos to the performance. To play on peoples emotions is part of how we connect and in some cases exploit our spectators. How many times have you been to a concert where the music brought you to tears? Would we consider that a bad or an unethical performance. Why then is it wrong to touch others with talk of those departed? I just don't get it?
Cheers.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
When listening to music or seeing an emotional scene in a move or play it may move us emotionally, but it doesn't change our world view. We know what we are experiencing.
With a seance like this, it is being presented as reality. To bring emotional pain and sorrow to someone is very unethical. And this is not art. Anyone that would reduce to someone to tears thinking about their departed loved one is not a performer, they are a predator. If someone truly believes they can communicate with the dead and demonstrate this to people who believe it is true, then it is not performance or entertainment, it is religion. And if they want to do this, they must be prepared to accept the responsibility of their actions and be willing to deal with the consequences. Quote: On 2010-12-08 14:57, jdmagic357 wrote: |
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