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Scott Wells Inner circle Houston, TX 1025 Posts |
If I may return to my post regarding waivers, I want to point out that people feeling light-headed, ill or even fall faint on the floor during a seance is not new and, if the seances are conducted long enough, the mediums will eventually experience a dramatic, perhaps traumatic, situation.
In the Spring 1991 issue of "Seance" magazine (page 12), Mark Edward opened his column by talking about a person who lay prostrate on the floor of the Houdini Seance Room at the Magic Castle...BEFORE the seance even began! The crux of the article is this: "When a group of sophisticates sits down for a seance,m they are seldom prepared for what is to follow. As the Medium, I want to create tension, and fear during the seance, and, at least, a few momentary chills. But as entertainment mediums, we have a grave responsibility to our sitters - and to ourselves - to protect them against any possible misunderstandings or legal problems which may arise during or after our performances. "When the sitters are elderly, physically handicapped, mentally unstable, or suffer from drug or alcohol induced hallucinations, we generally don't find out about it until it's too late. "The unpredictable experience may produce an entertaining moment if you are a good ad-libber, but more often than not, it will have a detrimental effect on your sitters and the success of your seance. "Therefore, I have prepared a 'Seance Waiver Form' that concisely outlines possible liabilities for medium and sitter 'for the next one hundred years.' " So, this was his justification in producing the waiver. Our was threefold: first, we agree with the above, and second, we wanted to have the ability to use their likeness for promotional purposes (i.e. video and camera and audio waiver). Finally, it was intended to give them pause to know that something "spooky" just might happen and add to the overall dramatic effect even before they are seated. Indeed, performance insurance is available for a nominal charge through the IBM and the SAM and it's a good idea to have them. If you have ever worked for federally funded organizations, they often require up to $2MM of liability insurance. So it's always good to have that in your back pocket. It puts you one step ahead of your competition who may have to take time to apply. Furthermore, I think it makes you more professional to state just in passing that you have such liability insurance for all potential clients. Just like offering to send them your W-9 form so you are filed as one of their vendors. That makes it easier for repeat bookings, too.
"A magician who isn't working is only fooling himself." - Scott Wells, M.I.M.C. with Gold Star
The Magic Word podcast: http://themagicwordpodcast.com Listen to convention coverage, interviews with magicians, pictures, videos and more. Magic Inspirations website for all things Banachek: www.magicinspirations.net |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
SAM is 1 million, IBM is 2.
Waivers are an extremely good idea, for such circumstances. Mark's brilliant, not just for that idea, and a really good person!
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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jdmagic357 Special user 737 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-11 12:12, Harley Newman wrote: Amazing how this poster is in favor of waivers but thinks insurance give licence to those wanting to harm? Oh and your comment about POISONING A RESERVOIR is not only a gross misrepresentation of what was said but insane to spout in an open forum and possibly criminal. Just a heads up. Cheers.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
In addition to everything else, JD is an expert on law! Amazing.
Quote: On 2010-12-11 13:54, jdmagic357 wrote: |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
JD, you're deliberately misinterpreting the things I've been saying. Perhaps if you came out from behind your phony name, we could have a more straightforward discussion.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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jdmagic357 Special user 737 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-11 14:00, Todd Robbins wrote: Another misrepresentation, as a few posts back I suggested consulting a layer. And in my above post said MAY be criminal. I guess as well as being an expert on all thing magical, Tony thinks himself witty and gay. Well I'll let the readers decide for themselves which might be true? Cheers. Quote:
Indeed, performance insurance is available for a nominal charge through the IBM and the SAM and it's a good idea to have them. If you have ever worked for federally funded organizations, they often require up to $2MM of liability insurance. So it's always good to have that in your back pocket. It puts you one step ahead of your competition who may have to take time to apply. Furthermore, I think it makes you more professional to state just in passing that you have such liability insurance for all potential clients. Just like offering to send them your W-9 form so you are filed as one of their vendors. That makes it easier for repeat bookings, too. I'm sorry I missed this. A true professional for sure. Cheers.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Harley,
JD, or whatever its name is, was not misinterpreting your post. He/she/it was just pretending it didn't understand your post. He/she/it was just playing stupid (and does so very, very well.) After all JD made it very clear that JD is not a "layer". Quote: On 2010-12-11 14:08, Harley Newman wrote: |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
My chickens are layers.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
http://www.ghosttoursofgalvestonisland.com/
http://www.galvestonghost.com/galvez.html http://www.wyndham.com/hotels/GLSHG/main.wnt The Galvez is a great weekend. Room 531 has some history |
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magicusb Inner circle 1135 Posts |
Anyone who delves in this area must be very careful.
For MANY this is NOT entertainment. They do not consider it show business, or a magic show. Or fun. Until you have one or several people in the group screaming hysterically and in uncontrollable terror in darkness or in the shadows, it will not dawn on you what responsibilities you have. It has happened to us on several occasions, but we have the experience, knowledge and compassion to handle it. You can damage a person for life in many ways. You can do them more harm than the most evil or incompetent psychiatrist could. And yet you do not need a license. This is an area where compassion and professionalism MUST come to play. It is not to be taken lightly. Dick Brookz & Dorothy Dietrich
Check out http://HoudiniOpoly.com
Houdini Museum Tour & Magic Show. Only building in the world dedicated to Houdini. http://Houdini.org http://HoudiniDisplays.com http://PsychicTheater.com Scranton, Pa (570) 342-5555 "The truth shall make you free, but first it will make you angry." -Robert Ingersoll-Atheist (on the mind of Houdini when he died.) We are thrilled we were able to bring The Grim Game to the world! Thanks TCM. |
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jdmagic357 Special user 737 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-14 09:15, magicusb wrote: And whose fault is that the spectators or the performers? FEAR is never a good motivator for performing. Once again to worry about what you might do to someone who is ALREADY unstable is of no consequence. If one was to be totally destroyed by a performance piece then I contend that they should have been in hospital, not at your show. I will reiterate the question that, is it more logical a performer know the mental and physical state of all his patrons and how his act will affect them, OR would in not be the responsibility of the individual patron to understand what they were going to see and prepare themselves for it? If I go to a speed race and a car jumps the embankment in the course of an accident and people are killed it's not the fault of the driver. While tragic yes it's not their responsibility. People know that those things can happen. Same is true in a seance. People know strange things will happen and if they aren't mentally or physically strong enough to handle it then they shouldn't be there. If fish freak me out, I don't go swimming in the ocean. duh. I'm talking about personal responsibility people STOP trying to be the worlds mother and be yourself. Cheers.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Dealing with ANY belief system is dangerous without context setting, briefing, scoping out the participants etc.
Many people do zodiac effects... did you know it can offend some? Its true... I am always careful to say things such as "I am not here to say ghosts do not exist or not... all I am saying is I am going to do a simulation of X Y or Z..." Before someone starts the dreaded disclaimer debate - (this place is becoming like pennies)... not setting context, scope and understanding your audience is a fatal mistake.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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jdmagic357 Special user 737 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-14 18:06, Dr Spektor wrote: I'm never afraid of offending someone. If someone is offended by my performance they're free to leave. Personally I think slapstick comedy, slurs on Italians, and references to the holocaust extremely offensive but it is the right of any and all who live in America to satirize and or initiate the discourse. To many people have died for my privilege to say, think, and believe what I want for me to be moved by some words in a magic board. Sorry.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
That is not my point - it is a right to say things and its other people's rights to be offended and perhaps make sure no one hires you again... or if it works... go for it. Andrew Dice Clay - he is a great example.
Repeat: context, scope, audience.... skip if you want - it is your right... but why you would, I dunno. I say provocative things all the time - but for a purpose to engage and challenge... if one just wants to make comments without thought - hey go for it. What I am saying is not me being genius - I'm just pulling from Weber, Cohen, entertainment 101, educational theory and social constructivism. Its all been discussed before. So don't be moved by the words here - they are taken from other sources. BTW, what the heck are you doing here on a magic board. I now bow out - go fight with the others some more.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
This has been one of the best threads of late, perhaps minus an occasional provocateur. 20+% of the populace suffering mental illness at any given time and with rampant illegal/prescription drug abuse leaves us with a very vulnerable populace. No different then what Houdini found nor the african medicine man 50,000 years ago. A populace ripe for exploitation and an assortment of predators ......magicians, priest, prophets, preachers, counselors, mediums, physicians, social workers, new age seekers, the naive and well the meaning ...... do no harm. That should include bad kiddies magi's as well, lol
That said, the other 80% have no obligation to be deprived of an entertaining night out. |
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Silver_Fang Loyal user San Antonio 282 Posts |
Someone needs to drink a case of Miracle Mineral Supplement... Fun read though, between the lines. I haven't really been around long enough to contribute much to the current topic, just wanted to say thank you all for the insights.
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-14 17:02, jdmagic357 wrote: That's a lovely idea, but the reality is with seances that people are not aware of how it will affect them. They may think that they are prepared and can handle it, but most people are far more vulnerable than they realize when it comes to a lost loved one. I see this every night with my show and I tread very lightly when I come to this section of the performance. It requires the utmost in sensitivity and finesse, or it is easy to step over the line and bring true sorrow to someone that came to the show for an evening of entertainment. Anyone that has real world experience with doing seances will understand this and agree. Seances are very different from traditional magic. If you disagree with that statement, then you have never performed a seance or you did one or two and were VERY lucky. |
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jdmagic357 Special user 737 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-14 23:52, Todd Robbins wrote: If fish freak me out, I don't go swimming in the ocean. Nuf said. Amazing how dense people can be, but I guess those are the same people attending his performances? Anyone with real world experience knows that they can't predict how every spectator will handle their act. To try would be a labor of futility. TR knows this and his motivation for posting these things are to scare off the weak minded there by cutting down the competition. Well done Tony seems you got em all fooled? Cheers.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Let's make this simple.
JD, have ever conducted a seance? I'm not psychic, but I will guess the answer is "no." Have even been to a seance? Again, the answer is probably "no." Do you have any idea what you are talking about. The answer is definately "NO." |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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