You are correct. Patrick Page is an international treasure. Many of those older videos have been repackaged by L&L, some combined and all released as DVD's. My only regret is there does not seem to be a vudeo demonstration or explaination of his ten second paper tear. Anyone know of anything?

Also on allmagic.com there is an explaination of the Benson Bowl routine by Doug Edwards with pictures of the actual props used and/or made by Benson. I stumbled across this by putting Benson Bowl into the images section of Google amnd saw and interesting picture of what looked to be some older props. Up came the explaination in glorious color.

Considering what is free for any on the internet it is amazing how much we can still keep secrets. This is one of the primary reasons I no longer get all bent out of shape regarding "exposure".

If interested the link should be, http://allmagic.com/magicshow/dougedwards/bensonbowl.html Oh and I'm still interested in any video explaination of the Pat Page ten second paper tear.

Frank Tougas

I have the ten second tear on video... it is an old video. It is a great piece of knowledge to have. It is almost impromptu. L&L may have it on video. In fact, I thought I saw it in one of their catalogs from the past year or two. Try calling them.

I suppose you are aware of, it's on one of his vids?
I do have it on his Trick-a-tape collection, where 11 effects soley are demonstrated.
But I know, if was released on another vid, as well as it is/was a dealers item..
I always loved it and actually did it a couple of times, simply figuring it out from that demo-vid..
It's a gem and a natural...

It was a dealer item with Magic Inc. I have those instructions. It is supposedly on an old tape on Stage magic, at least that is what it says on the Magic with Paper video, but that title does not appear to be available. At least I can not find it. That may be the one you have. It would be nice to see even if only a demo rather than the workings.

Frank Tougas

In my humble and limited estimation, Patrick Page is an all-time master. I only have two of his Secret Seminar dvds, but if the rest are any indication, hoo boy. Concise routines that are fully explained. I think anyone could find something on each of his works to add to his or her aresenal. I can't speak for any of his other dvds, but if they are anything like the spongeball and thumbtip dvd, yowsa.

I like to do kids parties. Is his kids party seminar another winner? I'm sure it is, but just like to check it out beforehand.

I think if I were told I could only learn from one magician, that magician would be Patrick Page.

Mark

Thanks for posting the Benson link... he was one of my heroes and one of the top magicians of his time.

Yes..also a big thanks from me for that link!

Actually, when this very same link earlier was here at this board somewhere (not that long ago) I failed to store the contents on my HD, done now ...

It's great to se the *real* props used by Roy Benson, though I found the description of his spongeball-vanish not exactly accurate and doing justice to his outstanding basic idea that makes it so deceptive.

I well know it is said, that later in his career, he altered the procedure, but there is a very large step from the original version decsribed in the Phoenix and in Bruce Ellliots *Classic Secrets of Magic*..

Make no mistake, the original handling using the wand under the arm is the most deceptive one!

I've seen countless handlings of this, some less deceptive too...
There are a lot of variations possible, some better then others..

Johnny Thompson does it VERY well, but he too has altered the original grip to fit it to his personal use.
Johnny Thompson does hold the spong between thumb and middlefinger..se his DVDs..and that makes for a very deceptive handling.

The original description and handling to me was also a bit too *strange*, hereby I mean the way to pinch the ball at a very smal 'edge', with the purpose of ALL of the ball is entirely visible..the drawback, IHMO was that all the other fingers of the same hand where completely closed and had to 'open' later..a bit of a strange position (to me).

As you could se, I altered that 'grib' competely, by taking a more natural (to me) 'take' on the sponge, simply holding it like one normally would pick up a sponge, between thumb and forefinger entirely held at the largest point of its diameter..

Most peopleI have seen using the basic Roy Benson vanish with the wand under the arm - which ensures the max. deception due to the *rythm* of the vanish/the timing,- have followed the steps outlined by Roy Benson, using that 'delicate' hold on the sponge.
This also goes for Fred Kaps..

I do have a capture where Fred Kaps is using the basic Roy Benson vanish sveral times in sucession.

But, as everything FK ever did, also this is executed flawlessly, OTOH, I always can spot a pinching action when the move is done..same goes for Frank Garcia..

To avoid that pinching action, 2 things have to be altered..

First of all, the grib on the sponge.

Second, the sponge is NOT, should not get *pinched out', but the 'st*al' is an inward wrist turning action when the hand moves toward the wand..

Maybe it's hard to believe, but I had fellow magicians all the way around, watching especially from behind to *spot* the move, and that was a demonstration for the very same purpose..to se from which angle the 'st*al' could be seen..

There was no weak angle..even from behind and when knowing what was coming and when, the vanish was invisible...even when somebody was lying on the floor trying to spot it..
Why was it invisible?

It's as explained, the inward turn of the wrist, eg. forefinger and thumb holding the sponge turn inwards towards the wrist as the other -in my case- OPEN fingers hide the 'rest'..

It's absolutely impossible to se the slightest flash of the sponge..honest to godness..

The above just for all those still 'pinching' the sponge out as originally described..

Also note, in the original Benson description there is a move, a move that can be avoided..

As in Bensons handling, all the other fingers, apart from thumb and forefinger are closed, he has to OPEN these fingers in order to *grab* the sponge.
Compare this with the fingersposition I use..

The fingers are already *ready* to do the work.. (That save an extra motion/movement)

That, together with the wristturn ensures the deception and the all-around cover of the sleight!

To the mods..:
If this post is too much of an *exposure*, please move it to the Secret Session..

I think it would be a shame to just remove it as there might be some information in here for those doing the bowlroutine and probably not yet are satisfied with their own current handling of the vanish..
Thanks...

Your fake transfer Werner is really good and really deceptive. I 'll try it sometimes.
Thank you for all.

Werner G. Seitz does the bowl routine great including great timing and misdirection for the load. Different than Don Alan.

From what my Dad said about Roy Benson who he saw perform in the night club was the at the Benson bowl was done as a stand up routine. The balls would vanish and then appear under the bowl on a table. He used it as an encore to his act in this night club performance. From what I read in his files the effect was like the silks under a soup plate (silks vanish and appear under a bowl or soup plate). Roy Benson did it with sponge balls and I can find no record of him using a load.

Chop Chop also used a large cup and it was a stand up effect in the night club. What I feel what Don Alan did was to take these cabaret effects and then put them into a sit down close up act. And I think that it might have been Don Alan that added the loads to the effects.

Back in the days when Don Alan was starting out there were less magicians performing these effects. Don Alan or rather magic inc used to sell a bowl routine where it was climaxed with a bagel under Don Alan’s name. I have seen a photo of Don Doing the effect.

The steel barring and the big nut from what I understand was from Frank Travis of Chicago. He let Don have the ideas for the routines and it was Don and his TV appearances that made the effects popular under a different close up performing conditions.

Anyway, these are just some notes you may find interesting.

Pat Page has a very nice bowl routine (using a bowl with a "foot") on his sponge ball tape. His use of the style of the bowl is very clever.

Everything Pat Page does has the mark of a real pro.

As already mentioned a couple of posts up, 2 of his moves used in this routine are ouststanding.

1. His shuttlepass with a sponge using the bowl.
2. His ballvanish and grabbing the bowl (tambourine in this case- on top)

Here is a list of those performers -in no particular order-, I was lucky enough to se performing the Bowl.

1. Don Alan
2. Albert Goshman
3. Johnny Thompson
4. Roberto Giobbi
5. Alexander de Cova
6. Frank Garcia
7. Fred Kaps
8. Pat Page

All of the above mentioned have added their own twist to their routine.

1. Don Alan, the incredible entertaining interaction with the specs.

2. Al Goshman, his upstart without the use of an 'extra' using incredible misdirection.

3. Johnny Thompson, an original final load often combined with the appearance of a selected card in a sandwich.

4. Roberto Giobbi, a fine upstart producing the sponges out of a purseframe and very casual handling when loading the bowl as well as fine interaction with his specs.

5. Alexander de Cova, had a great way to hide the 'extra' as well as a chopstickvanish with 2 chopsticks that looks great.

6. Frank Garcia, another great way to show the bowl empty whilst a sponge already was loaded.

7. Fred Kaps, an oustanding clean upstart, showing both hands empty whilst the stick was resting across the mouth up bowl and getting the *extra* in a very natural way..

8. Pat Page using a tambourine and I also recall having seen him using a bowl..

I can't currently recall more I have seen doing it...

The one I really would like to se doing it is Terry Vecky, as he's a seasoned pro and no doubt does an entertaining and magical job re the Bowl..

PS. What I have NOT yet seen, is anybody doing 2 final loads.. (I do sometimes)

Here are some more sources on Benson Bowl routines: Don Alan's routine is in the book "In a Class by Himself", Frank Garcia's routine is in "Encyclopedia of Sponge Ball Magic", and Goshman's routine may be found in "Magic by Gosh".

Bish! a pleasure to see you back.

Frank Tougas

I love the bowl routine. Mine is essentially the same as the one I published as an MYI member Top Hat about 30 years ago. Mine just uses 2 sponge balls. I have a wonderful metalic bowl discovered by my daughter that makes such a wonderful chime when tapped with the stick.

Thanks Frank it is very nice to be back.

Warner has brought up Terry Vecky and Terry and I used to see each other a lot in Chicago. In fact when we both lived there we were best friends. Terry did several loads in the same bowl routine and had a line for each.

The last load was a big nut.

He also used a squeaker with the sponge balls and it was a running gag in the routine because he would push the ball down on the table with his finger and the sponge ball squeaked. Then the spectator would do it and it did not squeak.

Terry had fun little stuff like this all through his act. He got away with about 8 crazy loads under the bowl. He would produce one like a can of tuna and say something like that there was something fishy going on. Because the can of tuna doesn't fit under the bowl - because this rock was in the way.

Then he would say some gag lines - Because the rock doesn't fit under the bowl. Then he would produce the next load. He would also make the can of tuna and rock and other things squeak to with the squeaker.

The last load was a big nut that was smaller than the one used in the hat load that Don Alan used. Frank Travis gave Terry Vecky the OK to use the idea but when Don Alan saw him do it when he was entertaining Don and Pete Biro and others at a magic get together - Terry was booked by Jay Marshall. And Terry was performing at the event table to table. When he got to the table Don was at - Don did not like the production of the big nut!

Don got up set and there was an argument over the nut being in Terry's bowl routine. Pete and I have talked a little about this here in the Café. Don was KNOWN for using a big nut. This was also reported when they wrote up the event in Genii Magazine. Terry gave Don his big nut at the event and found another load idea and continued on with the routine without the nut.

About two weeks later Don and Terry got together and became friends and Don gave Terry back his big nut and said that Terry could use it. I knew both of them. I respected Don Alan as he was an idol of mine and Terry was one of the best younger magicians at this time and one of my best friends (still is). So I was glad that the matter was worked out between them. Because later they did do shows and they were booked to do shows together and performed at the same events once and a while. And Terry being respectful of Don's place in magic did not do the bowl routine - if booked at the same event - if Don was there performing.

From what I understand the big nut Don used in his act was givin for display to the magic castle by Don's son and daughter. The funny thing Don's kids were there to donate some of Don's stuff to the castle the night before I was booked to perform there. It was nice seeing them again as I knew them from the old days and the - three sheeters club meetings (a performers club) that all of our parents belonged to - and we met by sitting at the kids table. At these three sheeter events when we were kids.

What do you mean "developing?" This bowl is basically the non-gaffed half of a set of Rings and Things rice bowls. And we magicians do refer to the part that you think we call the "top" as the bottom.

I have never done this effect, but I have always been really curious about it. What would be the best place to learn this routine from?

Get the video of Don Alan... The best write up is in one of the Bruce Elliot books. Johnny Thompson's lecture notes has IMHO the BEST routine as his misdirection for the final load beats them all.

Bish.... glad top see you back. Thanks for the "rest of the story" re: Vecky and Don getting back together! Man that was a nervous scene when Terry produced that nut when Don, Jan and I were at the table.

Pete, I heartfully agree!!

Though I have difficulties to se, Don Alans final load and misdirection wasn't as good ?

However, note, that both Don Alan and Johnny Thompson SOLEY did the Bowl sitting down at a table..
It's like Slydini..in that performing condition one can do miracles...

Don't fail to watch how well a final load can be covered 'also' in a stand-up situation..
The URL re this has been published in this topic

History:
The original Benson Routine is in Bruce Elliots *Classic Secrets of Magic* starting at page 207,
though first described in Bruce Elliots *Phoenix* magazine,no.156, 1948.

Johnny Thompsons routine is in his spiral bound booklet *Polished Polish Prestidigitation* on page 7, published March 1981.
This little booklet contains a lot of other great routines from JT, amongst them his handling of Chink-a-chink..

PS. I too can only advice anybody interested in doing the bowl,to get the DVDs and actually *se* both Don Alan and Johnny Thompson do their routine and loads, and this also goes for seing Al Goshmans version..his is on the lecture DVD from International Magic/Ron McMillan/UK..

It is called Classic Secrets of Magic by Bruce Elliot I have both a paperback and a hard cover edition. It is out of print but I see Magic Inc. still has some. Put the book title and author into a search engine and you will get that page. For twenty dollars you can't go wrong, as it also contains the Dr. Sack's Dice routine.

Frank Tougas