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LobowolfXXX
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On 2010-12-15 17:10, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 16:56, balducci wrote:
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On 2010-12-15 16:03, Woland wrote:
Balducci and Redshirt,

It's wonderful if you and I want to take care of the homeless person. We have every right to do so.

I'm not sure where I ever said that. Do you have me confused with someone else?


Yay, I'm not the only one who is taken out of context and has words put in their mouth that they didn't say.


If it makes you feel any better, I never accused Balducci of wanting to take care of the homeless.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
HerbLarry
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On 2010-12-15 16:55, EsnRedshirt wrote:
I'm still grating over the fact that I'm arguing with someone using the term "ObamaCare". Besides, your argument falls apart because I cannot choose to not cede my right to protect myself and not have my taxes go to pay the military. At any rate, I need you to define what you're calling "ObamaCare", because the health insurance reform bill is massive, complex, and multifaceted.

However, I'll concede a point- I don't think that we should be mandated to buy health insurance. Why? I think that a basic level of health care should be provided, regardless of your ability to pay, thus eliminating the need for health insurance. Oh, sure, if you can afford to pay more, you can buy supplimental insurance that gets you a better hospital room or other perks (this is what health insurance does in countries with "socialized" medicine.) But basic health care should be provided to all citizens.


I'm not arguing anything. I asked a simple question. How is Obamacare, the healthcare bill, HealthCare, a Right?
Free Speech is Right. To peacefully assemble is a Right. People keeping and bearing Arms is a Right. Not having to quarter soldiers in your house without a specific law is a Right.
How is Healthcare, PelosiCare, a Right. If Bob Fisher had pushed it through against the people's clear voice I'd call it Fishercare.
Can you answer me that, he asked again and again?
You know why don't act naive.
HerbLarry
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On 2010-12-15 17:24, balducci wrote:
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On 2010-12-15 17:21, HerbLarry wrote:
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critter wrote:

Reckon that ain't the last thing you asked.


Nope, it was the first, and I still haven't got an answer.
Wanna give it a shot?

Yes, actually, you have. At least twice. You either missed it or just ignored it.


Quote:
On 2010-12-15 09:32, HerbLarry wrote:
Someone PLEASE explain to me how taking money from one person and giving it another, Obamacare, is a Right?
Also explain why if I buy Fire Insurance after my house burns down it's not covered or Theft Insurance after a robbery or Flood insurance after a flood or need I go on?
You know why don't act naive.
HerbLarry
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For the question impared:

HOW EXACTLY IS HEALTHCARE A RIGHT.

My prediction is no one will answer the question. They will talk of many things but not explain how HealthCare is a right.
You know why don't act naive.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:29, HerbLarry wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 16:55, EsnRedshirt wrote:
I'm still grating over the fact that I'm arguing with someone using the term "ObamaCare". Besides, your argument falls apart because I cannot choose to not cede my right to protect myself and not have my taxes go to pay the military. At any rate, I need you to define what you're calling "ObamaCare", because the health insurance reform bill is massive, complex, and multifaceted.

However, I'll concede a point- I don't think that we should be mandated to buy health insurance. Why? I think that a basic level of health care should be provided, regardless of your ability to pay, thus eliminating the need for health insurance. Oh, sure, if you can afford to pay more, you can buy supplimental insurance that gets you a better hospital room or other perks (this is what health insurance does in countries with "socialized" medicine.) But basic health care should be provided to all citizens.


I'm not arguing anything. I asked a simple question. How is Obamacare, the healthcare bill, HealthCare, a Right?
Free Speech is Right. To peacefully assemble is a Right. People keeping and bearing Arms is a Right. Not having to quarter soldiers in your house without a specific law is a Right.
How is Healthcare, PelosiCare, a Right. If Bob Fisher had pushed it through against the people's clear voice I'd call it Fishercare.
Can you answer me that, he asked again and again?


I think that question has been answered, at least from one point of view:

"a basic level of health care should be provided, regardless of your ability to pay" -EsnRedshirt

I assume (and I certainly could be wrong, but even if it's not his point of view, it's certainly the point of view of many) that he believes that it's a right for exactly the same reason the things you mentioned were originally set forth as "rights" - it's self-evident. There's nothing magical about not being required to quarter soldiers or freedom of assembly; a group of people once found them to be so obvious that they didn't need any other justification, and they put it in writing. While healthcare, specifically, did not make it into that document, there are certainly many people who find it be just as self-evident as any of the rights originally set forth by the Founding Fathers.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
HerbLarry
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I submit that EsnRedshirt saying something doesn't make it a Right of The People.
Since when is EsnRedshirt consulted on what is and isn't a Right?
Did I miss a NewsFlash?
EsnRedshirt and many others may FEEL that everyone should have HealthCare, again that doesn't make it a Right.
So I'll ask again, How is HealthCare a Right?
Oh and Magic has nothing to do with it either.
You know why don't act naive.
HerbLarry
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I wonder why such obvious things such as Food, Housing, and Clothing didn't make it into writing?
Boy those must have been some neglectful people writing down those Rights huh?
You know why don't act naive.
LobowolfXXX
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In your opinion, what makes freedom of assembly a right?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
HerbLarry
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On 2010-12-15 17:49, LobowolfXXX wrote:
In your opinion, what makes freedom of assembly a right?


Answer mine and I'll answer yours, though it doesn't take a Degree to know my answer and it wouldn't be an opinion it would be steeped in Law. I'd expect yours to be as well.
You know why don't act naive.
critter
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On 2010-12-15 17:35, HerbLarry wrote:
For the question impared:

HOW EXACTLY IS HEALTHCARE A RIGHT.

My prediction is no one will answer the question. They will talk of many things but not explain how HealthCare is a right.


Because without it people will die. Horribly. And life is a right.
It's the very first word in the old "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Life always comes first.
Question answered. The end.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:35, HerbLarry wrote:
For the question impared:

HOW EXACTLY IS HEALTHCARE A RIGHT.

My prediction is no one will answer the question. They will talk of many things but not explain how HealthCare is a right.

At least two different people have answered this question, with reference to the Constitution. Again, it seems to me, you either missed the answers or you are ignoring them.

I guess if you are not happy with their answers, that is something else again. Then, it is ultimately up to the SCOTUS to decide.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
critter
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:01, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:35, HerbLarry wrote:
For the question impared:

HOW EXACTLY IS HEALTHCARE A RIGHT.

My prediction is no one will answer the question. They will talk of many things but not explain how HealthCare is a right.


Because without it people will die. Horribly. And life is a right.
It's the very first word in the old "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
Life always comes first.
Question answered. The end.


Now that I've settled this issue, care to answer Lobo's question and also mine about the dollar? It's only fair.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
LobowolfXXX
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On 2010-12-15 17:56, HerbLarry wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:49, LobowolfXXX wrote:
In your opinion, what makes freedom of assembly a right?


Answer mine and I'll answer yours, though it doesn't take a Degree to know my answer and it wouldn't be an opinion it would be steeped in Law. I'd expect yours to be as well.


Edit: I should say, actually, that I pointed out that EsnRedshirt answered it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:07, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:56, HerbLarry wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:49, LobowolfXXX wrote:
In your opinion, what makes freedom of assembly a right?


Answer mine and I'll answer yours, though it doesn't take a Degree to know my answer and it wouldn't be an opinion it would be steeped in Law. I'd expect yours to be as well.


Edit: I should say, actually, that I pointed out that EsnRedshirt answered it.


I remember that. It was fairly recent.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
HerbLarry
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:03, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:35, HerbLarry wrote:
For the question impared:

HOW EXACTLY IS HEALTHCARE A RIGHT.

My prediction is no one will answer the question. They will talk of many things but not explain how HealthCare is a right.

At least two different people have answered this question, with reference to the Constitution. Again, it seems to me, you either missed the answers or you are ignoring them.

I guess if you are not happy with their answers, that is something else again. Then, it is ultimately up to the SCOTUS to decide.


So y'all are going with General Welfare and EsnRedshirt says so?
If those are your best answers, I thank you.
When the SCOTUS decides we get to see if we have any freedom left or not because if you and I can be taxed for this for these reasons, there is nothing standing between us and tyranny.
You know why don't act naive.
critter
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:13, HerbLarry wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:03, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:35, HerbLarry wrote:
For the question impared:

HOW EXACTLY IS HEALTHCARE A RIGHT.

My prediction is no one will answer the question. They will talk of many things but not explain how HealthCare is a right.

At least two different people have answered this question, with reference to the Constitution. Again, it seems to me, you either missed the answers or you are ignoring them.

I guess if you are not happy with their answers, that is something else again. Then, it is ultimately up to the SCOTUS to decide.


So y'all are going with General Welfare and EsnRedshirt says so?
If those are your best answers, I thank you.
When the SCOTUS decides we get to see if we have any freedom left or not because if you and I can be taxed for this for these reasons, there is nothing standing between us and tyranny.


Jeebus. Really? "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" didn't do it?

In addition to what I and others have said, I would also like to add that 2+2=4. I realize that this is a controversial viewpoint and I expect much opposition, but I stand by my conviction.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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HerbLarry- why are you even asking? It's obvious that nobody, including the SCOTUS (if they decide in a way you don't agree with), will have an answer that's to your liking.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
HerbLarry
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Now that I've settled this issue, care to answer Lobo's question and also mine about the dollar? It's only fair.


I apologize the reference to the dollar is too vague I can't find one. Please restate?
You know why don't act naive.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:13, HerbLarry wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:03, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 17:35, HerbLarry wrote:
For the question impared:

HOW EXACTLY IS HEALTHCARE A RIGHT.

My prediction is no one will answer the question. They will talk of many things but not explain how HealthCare is a right.

At least two different people have answered this question, with reference to the Constitution. Again, it seems to me, you either missed the answers or you are ignoring them.

I guess if you are not happy with their answers, that is something else again. Then, it is ultimately up to the SCOTUS to decide.


So y'all are going with General Welfare and EsnRedshirt says so?
If those are your best answers, I thank you.
When the SCOTUS decides we get to see if we have any freedom left or not because if you and I can be taxed for this for these reasons, there is nothing standing between us and tyranny.


My answer wasn't that EsnRedshirt says so; I was pointing out what *his* answer seemed to be.

What's your answer for freedom of assembly?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:17, HerbLarry wrote:
Quote:

Now that I've settled this issue, care to answer Lobo's question and also mine about the dollar? It's only fair.


I apologize the reference to the dollar is too vague I can't find one. Please restate?


The question is:
What's more important, one dollar or two lives?

It's just a general ethical question.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
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