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Carrie Sue
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With all the caterwauling from Democrats the past few days, you'd think they were debating an actual tax cut to zero percent for the so-called rich, instead of what's actually happening -- a debate about leaving tax rates where they are at present instead of raising them for everyone on January 1.

My opinion is that if 10% income tax is good for the lowest income earners, it should be the same rate no matter how much one earns. I'm really sick of the class envy rhetoric coming out of the Democrats in Washington, and I'm even sicker of the guilty rich liberals who support them. "I don't need they money," they say, so who's stopping them from writing out a big-n-large check to Uncle Sam? No one. But you never hear of anyone doing it.

I wish the Republicans would actually talk about taking tax rates down for everyone. Leaving tax rates where they are at present will only keep things from getting worse, and may give businesses a minor incentive to hire when they finally have the future rules more certain. Lowering the rates further, however, would be a bigger stimulus to the economy than a trillion-dollar spending program.

Carrie
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HerbLarry
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0.00 for everyone is good for me.
Repeal the 16th while you are at it.
I would say you can't spend what you don't have but that is blatantly false.
You know why don't act naive.
Stanyon
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Give the politicians more tax money and it will be all the more they will waste. S'what happens when all the wealthy career politicians, something like 545 total, are making the decisions for the remaining 300-400 million citizens, give or take the total of illegal aliens.
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Carrie Sue
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HerbLarry,

I would be all in favor of repealing the 16th Amendment, but while we have it, we ought to have a fair, flat tax rate across the board. I'm one in favor of Steve Forbes' flat tax proposal which would have generous deductions for individuals and their dependents and that's it. No deductions for this and that, and just 17% of everything you make over the standard deduction.

Now that would put a lot of tax professionals out of work, but it sure would be an economic stimulus because people would finally be free to do something more productive with their time.

Carrie
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HerbLarry
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0.00 is pretty dang flat & I say fair.
You know why don't act naive.
Carrie Sue
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Uh, but it wouldn't raise any revenue, Herb. Get real.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports......d-future

Carrie
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HerbLarry
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Cut spending and they will have plenty the correct way.
Besides not having it hasn't stopped them from spending it. Get real.
You know why don't act naive.
balducci
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Carrie, I recall that one time we discussed this in the past you were somewhat confused about how tax rates and tax brackets operate. You do understand now that EVERYONE is entitled to, and gets, the same lowest tax rate on the same first portion of their income, right?

Please don't start thinking I support high taxes. I don't. But right now it seems like you've spent up to your maximum credit limit, and are refusing to make more than the minimum monthly payment. Any financial advisor will tell you that that is a fool's game. Mind you, China loves you for playing it.
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balducci
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Try this Budget Puzzle game, if you haven't already:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/......inreview

I balanced the budget with several billion to spare (and, yes, I cut spending very significantly).
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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Laffer curve. Just wanted to throw it out because someone will bring it up anyhow.

I think it depends on terms. "Rich" is anyone who makes more than you do and who you think can "afford" more taxes.

I suppose the "best" income tax rate is one that manages to pay for what you need and nothing more.

Being serious this is EXACTLY why the debate is so tough to have. Forget the right tax rate, because I am going to say that these fools in charge will spend 100% PLUS of what they are given. They need to spend less and that is where focus should be.

Really when they talk about "taxing less" what they mean is you being ALLOWED TO KEEP MONEY YOU EARNED! When they talk about taxing the rich, they are talking about taking someones money to benifit another. So I wish we could use proper terms.

They use the terms they do for the same reason casino's use chips. They are not money. These fools act as if they are entitled to spend all the money PLUS no matter what. It is about time someone informed them of the counter opinion.
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Carrie Sue
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Hear, hear, Danny!

Democrats seem to have the opinion that all money is theirs, and what you get to keep is only the result of their good graces.

Carrie
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Dannydoyle
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Ummm not only democrats, I was suggesting that we put ALL politicians on notice. It seems as if spending is a disease that knows no party. I will concede the point that the democrats seem worse at it, but it is not an exclusive problem in that party. They ALL need to hear this message.

I mean it is the climate in Washington that needs to change. When they project a 10% increase, and get a 7% increase they scream it is a budget cut! It is NOT.

Not going for 55% on a death tax and settling for 35% IS NOT A CUT! Like I said we need to get terms right.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Is it off topic to add some discussion about the "death tax"?

Most of my "wealth" is in the form of some farm land, a house, and a business. Without some reasonable tax relief all would need to be quickly sold, no doubt at a substantial loss, to pay "death tax" on assets I have already been taxed to death on. My children will be encumbered with this terrible reality- they will probably hate me by the time it is over and the bones are clean.

A matter of whose ox is gored, I suppose, but I think that the line is drawn way too low for this day and our inflated economy. I also feel if we insist on robbing people of their non-cash assets, we should at least give them a much longer payout period. Sort of a goose and golden egg concept...

Most people have no concept about how many lives are made a living hell because of this issue. Steinbrenner had the right idea, but I am not ready to go just yet...
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Woland
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Remember that almost 50% of US "taxpayers" pay ZERO federal income taxes.

When 51% of the voters thrive on "benefits" paid for by the other 49%, democracy is over. (Tocqueville)

In 2008, the "evil" top 5% of earners in the US earned 38% of the income, but were forced to "contribute" 60% of the federal income tax revenue.

Think about it: 5% of the taxpayers are carrying 60% of the burden.

The insatiable appetites of the "tax-eaters" -- government employees and other beneficiaries -- will cause them to kill the goose that laid their golden eggs.

Widespread, total, universal poverty always follows the imposition of state socialism.

Woland
Carrie Sue
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Zero inheritance tax, period. Taxing the wealth of a person after they die is simply immoral.

Carrie
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EsnRedshirt
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I'm getting a sense of deja vu here...

Balducci- I balanced the budget, too. But, politically, the solutions are unrealistic- the heavy cuts to the military budget necessary aren't politically viable.

Carrie- we're in a pretty deep hole right now. Stated simply, we can cut taxes, or we can cut the deficit. Pick one.
Oh, you wanted to cut government spending? Now? Okay- pick your poison: people freezing to death and starving in the streets (cutting social programs), or an unemployment rate of 15-20% (cutting federal jobs, government contractor positions, etc.)

I'd rather put incentives on locally made products, materials, and labor to make it more attractive for companies to "buy American". It may mean an increase of tariffs, but it will also give select tax cuts to companies that invest in our country's security and stability. It won't decrease the deficit, but we can worry about that when the unemployment rate has dropped down to a less ugly level.


Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:55, Woland wrote:
Remember that almost 50% of US "taxpayers" pay ZERO federal income taxes.

When 51% of the voters thrive on "benefits" paid for by the other 49%, democracy is over. (Tocqueville)

In 2008, the "evil" top 5% of earners in the US earned 38% of the income, but were forced to "contribute" 60% of the federal income tax revenue.

Think about it: 5% of the taxpayers are carrying 60% of the burden.

The insatiable appetites of the "tax-eaters" -- government employees and other beneficiaries -- will cause them to kill the goose that laid their golden eggs.

Widespread, total, universal poverty always follows the imposition of state socialism.

Woland
Woland, on the other hand, 15% of the citizens own 85% of the wealth. Can't tax something that people don't have.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Before we get too excited about who pays how much tax, we should probably look at how those numbers are calculated. All the stats I've seen that support numbers such as those that Woland brings forth measure taxable income. Well surprise surprise. Once all the deductions are done, those with the highest taxable income pay the most tax. This would be true of ANY system. The more interesting questions (IMO) deal with who ends up where after deductions. How many of the wealthiest pay little to no income tax? Who benefits from the current deduction schemes?

John
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:58, EsnRedshirt wrote:

Balducci- I balanced the budget, too. But, politically, the solutions are unrealistic- the heavy cuts to the military budget necessary aren't politically viable.

I know. Cries of cut spending, cut spending, cut spending, cut spending are all we seem to hear. But when push comes to shove, politicians of all stripes won't cut and more importantly the cut spending voters won't support meaningful cuts to anything that amounts to more than a hill of beans.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Carrie Sue
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:58, EsnRedshirt wrote:
I'm getting a sense of deja vu here...

Balducci- I balanced the budget, too. But, politically, the solutions are unrealistic- the heavy cuts to the military budget necessary aren't politically viable.

Carrie- we're in a pretty deep hole right now. Stated simply, we can cut taxes, or we can cut the deficit. Pick one.
Oh, you wanted to cut government spending? Now? Okay- pick your poison: people freezing to death and starving in the streets (cutting social programs), or an unemployment rate of 15-20% (cutting federal jobs, government contractor positions, etc.)

I'd rather put incentives on locally made products, materials, and labor to make it more attractive for companies to "buy American". It may mean an increase of tariffs, but it will also give select tax cuts to companies that invest in our country's security and stability. It won't decrease the deficit, but we can worry about that when the unemployment rate has dropped down to a less ugly level.


I refuse to accept your hypothetical.

The unemployment rate won't be 15-20 percent if the job creators have more money to spend on products and services people produce in America or to reinvest in the businesses that they themselves own.

And "select tax cuts" are nothing but crony capitalism, and the government shouldn't be picking winners and losers.

Carrie
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ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:17, Dannydoyle wrote:
. . .

Really when they talk about "taxing less" what they mean is you being ALLOWED TO KEEP MONEY YOU EARNED! When they talk about taxing the rich, they are talking about taking someones money to benifit another. So I wish we could use proper terms.

They use the terms they do for the same reason casino's use chips. They are not money. These fools act as if they are entitled to spend all the money PLUS no matter what. It is about time someone informed them of the counter opinion.


100% agree. Government and politicians LOVE to use euphemisms, and so many buy into them. Also, they use them in FAR more than just terms of "taxes." Gotta love "collateral damage." Makes it sound like a few buildings had their walls damaged surrounding a war zone, rather than civilian by standards being slaughtered.
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