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Payne
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:56, Carrie Sue wrote:
Zero inheritance tax, period. Taxing the wealth of a person after they die is simply immoral.

Carrie

They are not taxing the wealth of the deceased individual they are taxing the unearned income of the living person who received the windfall. So by your logic, if one wins the lottery or comes back from Vegas with substantial winnings that unearned income should go untaxed as well?


Quote:
On 2010-12-10 12:27, Carrie Sue wrote:
I refuse to accept your hypothetical.

The unemployment rate won't be 15-20 percent if the job creators have more money to spend on products and services people produce in America or to reinvest in the businesses that they themselves own.

So what assurance do you have that these supposed "job creators"are going to create jobs here in the states? They will most likely use create these jobs in third world countries where they can pay workers a dollar a day (if that) and not have to worry about the environmental damage the production of their products inflict on the globe.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:58, EsnRedshirt wrote:

Carrie- we're in a pretty deep hole right now. Stated simply, we can cut taxes, or we can cut the deficit. Pick one.
Oh, you wanted to cut government spending? Now? Okay- pick your poison: people freezing to death and starving in the streets (cutting social programs), or an unemployment rate of 15-20% (cutting federal jobs, government contractor positions, etc.)




Consecutive false dichotomies.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
gdw
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 12:53, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:58, EsnRedshirt wrote:

Carrie- we're in a pretty deep hole right now. Stated simply, we can cut taxes, or we can cut the deficit. Pick one.
Oh, you wanted to cut government spending? Now? Okay- pick your poison: people freezing to death and starving in the streets (cutting social programs), or an unemployment rate of 15-20% (cutting federal jobs, government contractor positions, etc.)




Consecutive false dichotomies.


Ditto.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

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I won't forget you Robert.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 12:42, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:56, Carrie Sue wrote:
Zero inheritance tax, period. Taxing the wealth of a person after they die is simply immoral.

Carrie


They are not taxing the wealth of the deceased individual they are taxing the unearned income of the living person who received the windfall. So by your logic, if one wins the lottery or comes back from Vegas with substantial winnings that unearned income should go untaxed as well?


Amusingly, in Canada--where the tax rate is higher than in the US--lottery winnings are not taxable. No politics, just sayin'.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Carrie Sue
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 12:42, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:56, Carrie Sue wrote:
Zero inheritance tax, period. Taxing the wealth of a person after they die is simply immoral.

Carrie


They are not taxing the wealth of the deceased individual they are taxing the unearned income of the living person who received the windfall. So by your logic, if one wins the lottery or comes back from Vegas with substantial winnings that unearned income should go untaxed as well?


Gambling winnings and a man passing on his business to his children are not the same thing, Payne. I don't think they should be equal when it comes to tax law, either.

Do you really think a family should be forced to sell the business just to pay the inheritance taxes? Or would it be better for a person to pass that business on, keep everyone employed and create more new income that can then be taxed?

Carrie
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Father Photius
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Best way to cut the deficit is to cut spending. Tax rates are nothing more than how much politicians are stealing from you and how they are going to tell you it isn't stealing. Best tax rate is obviously 0%, but we do need a few govermented operated things like a military. Of course when it comes to spending Congress never starts with things that could really be cut, they start with programs that shouldn't be cut so the public will get in an outcry. Then congress can claim to have faced the issue, but the public didn't want it. I never trust anyone who will spend millions to get elected to a job that only pays $180,000 a year. That is bad money management to start with.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
Carrie Sue
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 12:45, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 12:27, Carrie Sue wrote:
I refuse to accept your hypothetical.

The unemployment rate won't be 15-20 percent if the job creators have more money to spend on products and services people produce in America or to reinvest in the businesses that they themselves own.



So what assurance do you have that these supposed "job creators"are going to create jobs here in the states? They will most likely use create these jobs in third world countries where they can pay workers a dollar a day (if that) and not have to worry about the environmental damage the production of their products inflict on the globe.


That's your prejudice talking. Not everything can be made in another country and imported, either. Many people like to build stuff right here.

Carrie
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ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 12:42, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:56, Carrie Sue wrote:
Zero inheritance tax, period. Taxing the wealth of a person after they die is simply immoral.

Carrie


They are not taxing the wealth of the deceased individual they are taxing the unearned income of the living person who received the windfall. So by your logic, if one wins the lottery or comes back from Vegas with substantial winnings that unearned income should go untaxed as well?


It would certainly be more consistent to treat all lottery endeavors as being outside the tax system than to tax the winners and not allow the losers to write off the cost of their tickets.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Payne
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 13:30, Carrie Sue wrote:

That's your prejudice talking. Not everything can be made in another country and imported, either. Many people like to build stuff right here.

Carrie


That's your ignorance talking. High paying manufacturing jobs are leaving this country in ever increasing numbers.

Image


As long as business can maximize profits at the expense of the workers and the environment they will continue to do so.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
EsnRedshirt
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 12:27, Carrie Sue wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 11:58, EsnRedshirt wrote:
I'm getting a sense of deja vu here...

Balducci- I balanced the budget, too. But, politically, the solutions are unrealistic- the heavy cuts to the military budget necessary aren't politically viable.

Carrie- we're in a pretty deep hole right now. Stated simply, we can cut taxes, or we can cut the deficit. Pick one.
Oh, you wanted to cut government spending? Now? Okay- pick your poison: people freezing to death and starving in the streets (cutting social programs), or an unemployment rate of 15-20% (cutting federal jobs, government contractor positions, etc.)

I'd rather put incentives on locally made products, materials, and labor to make it more attractive for companies to "buy American". It may mean an increase of tariffs, but it will also give select tax cuts to companies that invest in our country's security and stability. It won't decrease the deficit, but we can worry about that when the unemployment rate has dropped down to a less ugly level.


I refuse to accept your hypothetical.

The unemployment rate won't be 15-20 percent if the job creators have more money to spend on products and services people produce in America or to reinvest in the businesses that they themselves own.

And "select tax cuts" are nothing but crony capitalism, and the government shouldn't be picking winners and losers.

Carrie

As per false dicotomies, no, it's not. The federal government employs 2% of the workforce. If you cut any of those jobs, the employee who was there before will no longer be employed, thus raising the unemployment rate. If you cut enough of them, it will have a ripple effect on the economy- retail sales drop because people are trying to save money, which leads to stores laying off employees because sales and income is down.

And as for social programs- what do you do when the unemployment insurance runs out and you still don't have a job? You might get help from a food bank, but can you still pay the rent and utility bills? We may be about to find out what happens.

And my solution- we've had crony capitalism for years already. May as well keep doing the same thing, but give tax breaks for hiring US citizens, and for products and services bought from US-owned companies. It may help reduce offshoring and create more jobs here. You said- "The unemployment rate won't be 15-20 percent if the job creators have more money to spend on products and services people produce in America or to reinvest in the businesses that they themselves own." I'd like to increase the odds that they actually DO spend it on American goods and people, instead of shipping it to India and China like they've been doing for years.

Besides, the tax cuts they're talking about have been in effect for years. If tax cuts really created jobs, then why is nobody hiring?
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EsnRedshirt
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 13:47, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 13:30, Carrie Sue wrote:

That's your prejudice talking. Not everything can be made in another country and imported, either. Many people like to build stuff right here.

Carrie


That's your ignorance talking. High paying manufacturing jobs are leaving this country in ever increasing numbers.

Image


As long as business can maximize profits at the expense of the workers and the environment they will continue to do so.

Yep. Who can name goods that are actually produced in America? We'll make it fun- let's see how we can buy American. I'll start-

The US makes high quality firearms. It's not a large portion of our total retail sales, but there you go.
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* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
Magnus Eisengrim
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I drive a Japanese car, manufactured in America by Americans.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 14:13, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
I drive a Japanese car, manufactured in America by Americans.

That begs the question, which type of 'Americans'? Americans as in North Americans? Like Canadians or Mexicans? Smile
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 14:22, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 14:13, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
I drive a Japanese car, manufactured in America by Americans.

That begs the question, which type of 'Americans'? Americans as in North Americans? Like Canadians or Mexicans? Smile


The ones who work here.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 14:32, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 14:22, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-10 14:13, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
I drive a Japanese car, manufactured in America by Americans.

That begs the question, which type of 'Americans'? Americans as in North Americans? Like Canadians or Mexicans? Smile


The ones who work here.

John

Traitor. Dey Tuk R Jarbs! Smile
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Carrie Sue
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John (balducci) is correct. Who cares if Americans own the companies as long as they're employing Americans to build things right here?

Carrie
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ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 13:56, EsnRedshirt wrote:

As per false dicotomies, no, it's not. The federal government employs 2% of the workforce. If you cut any of those jobs, the employee who was there before will no longer be employed, thus raising the unemployment rate. If you cut enough of them, it will have a ripple effect on the economy- retail sales drop because people are trying to save money, which leads to stores laying off employees because sales and income is down.


The unemployment rate would go up if and only if they didn't get jobs somewhere else. Moreover, to the extent that less money is spent on particular government programs, that money is left in the hands of the taxpayer, with benefit to the economy and the employment picture, by spending more money and by investing in the private sector.

The first false dichotomy, which you caught yourself, was between taxes and the deficit; the alternative is reduced spending.

The second false dichotomy, with respect to reduced spending, was between people "freezing to death" and 15-20% unemployment. As noted above, displaced government workers don't have to remain unemployed, and, moreover, the government spends a ton of money on LOTS of things that don't stand between people and starvation.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-12-10 16:15, Carrie Sue wrote:
John (balducci) is correct. Who cares if Americans own the companies as long as they're employing Americans to build things right here?

Carrie


'Course I'd be mighty obliged if you bought a few Canadian products while yer at it.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
stoneunhinged
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And what should you buy to help me?

Since when did Christian compassion have national borders?

I mean, why is it so obvious to Carrie that Jesus is a Republican?
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And is she not forgetting the largesse that is visited upon her from the public purse?

Would she like that to be the first national saving?
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