Wow I did not know I would start a debate on Copyright.

Just wanted to know what people thought of the materials(routine) for the price


Good luck with your debate

I own the Timmy the Toliet Paper Notebook, I want to make mention of something that may help others.

"Only the entertainer listed on the enclosed certificate has performance rights to this routine".

This is stated in the notebook itself, however I didn't see this on the website where I purchased this.

Had I known this prior to my $200 purchase, I may have not bought it. Point being, if you purchase this effect and choose not to use it for whatever reason, you are not permitted to sell this.

You can sell it if you want to. You didn't sign an agreement prior to purchasing it. It's like any other book or DVD you own. He's not going to sue you because he can't prove damages and the certificate seems like something that was added to this package to try and increase its perceived value. Are you supposed to carry this with you at every show in case you cross paths with Burgoon?

Domino Magic, I agree with your post.

I have conteplated selling this to someone who could get more use from it, however as noted in my previous post, I was unsure if it was possible to do so. I wouldn't mind a few more to chime in on this. For what its worth, I have sent several emails to the creator about this, and none have been answered.

The only situation I've seen where a creator is consulted before a resale is Bob Kohler and his Holdout. In Kohler's situation, you know the terms of the sale upfront.

The other comment I'll add to my above post is that when you're selling it, make sure the buyer is aware of the certificate situation. At least your terms of sale will be more open than Burgoon's was when you bought it.

Chiming in...

Terms of sale must be disclosed to the buyer before purchase. This is just a poor attempt at intimidation. About as enforceable as informing you that you can only perform TTP on Thursday mornings...

Jim

I am curious-- you have seen the routine, you obviously know the bare bones to the working from watching the routine, you pay the $200.00, then talk about having the thought of selling it even before you received the package. In other words, what is the reasoning behind the purchase in the first place?
It is a pretty big investment.

I have owned this routine for 6 weeks, and have had plenty of time to make a decision as to whether or not this will work for me. It is a great routine, I am simply struggling to make it fit into my show. With that being said, when you buy an effect that you end up not liking or you decide your not going to use, you either put it on the shelf or offer to sell it to someone who will get some use from it. Based on the "for sale" section here at the Café, I would say this happens quite often.

So one has invested the $200 in this product, does that mean you would have to show your certificate if ever performing at the Castle? Lol, what about if you're booked on the same bill as Tom?

Rick

Great over priced routine and no replys from Tom got to love that combo I am so glad I passed on this one......

Mike

Domino Magic, I agree with your post.

I have conteplated selling this to someone who could get more use from it, however as noted in my previous post, I was unsure if it was possible to do so. I wouldn't mind a few more to chime in on this. For what its worth, I have sent several emails to the creator about this, and none have been answered.
[/quote]

I've had this for several months, but only today finally got around to watching the DVD. I'd say it's a very stong routine, worth every penny. It's simple to perform, and has a lot of comedy. Well, even though today is a "working day" for me, I managed to come up with loads of ideas to develop the routine (especially for a kid show). I felt there was a lack of "puppetry" with the toilet roll....and as a puppeteer myself, as soon as I created "Timmy", I played around, and quickly discovered that he has a myriad of expressions. Make him smile, laugh, frown, look sad....all very easy, if you take a few minutes to work your "toilet roll puppet". That means there is a WHOLE lot more that can be done with this routine than Tom suggests.
Personally, I'm delighted to have this in my repertoire, and will now create a whole new routine for family audiences, taking full advantage of the versatility of the "puppet". And since I vent too, I may even have Timmy make a few (derogatory)comments about my performance as the hilarity ensues.
A most excellent piece, I'd love to know how Kimmo and other vents would take this concept further, and create a fleshed-out routine, as I plan to do.
This gets a HUGE heads up from me, a true performance gem which has clearly never reached it's full potential.
;)

INMOTION, in a nut shell (no pun intended) one is free to sell their copy of the effect.

Copyright and the laws surrounding such is an interesting creature, there are so many variables. As far as one who has purchased or lawfully owns an artisans performance copy and wishes to pass it on to another in exchange for compensation, there basically are no restrictions notwithstanding (if the following do not apply) a bona fide contract/agreement between the one who owns the rights to the performance and the purchaser restricting such an exchange like as in a non-disclosure agreement.

USC Title 17 Chapter 1;
§ 109. Limitations on exclusive rights: Effect of transfer of particular copy or phonorecord42

(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106(3), the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html

IF ANYONE WANTS TO SELL OR TRADE THEIR COPY OF GENII MAGAZINE FEB 2004
PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

EZZET

You should just subscribe to Genii, then you get access to iGenii which is all the past issues of Genii online.

About 2 years ago I paid $200 for a lifetime subscription to Genii online. Great investment. They are already up to 2009. The scans are crystal clear and you can download them into pdf. Incredible resource for magic.
James
ps
Yes Timmy is in there, got it this morning. page 63 Feb. 2004