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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Martial Arts... Why? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-15 22:36, seadog93 wrote:

-I've also heard "hardened criminals" (who have been shot before) say that if anyone pulled a gun on them they would just take it away


Good luck with that...my girlfriend's has a decent-sized clip, and I'm pretty sure neither of us would just be pulling the trigger once. I imagine as long as nobody reloads, we could make a pretty good "heat of the moment" argument.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Ade2010
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Any Karateka here ever heared of Nathan J. Johnson?

I strongly reccomend his book "The Great Karate Myth", *very* interesting reading.
panlives
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I used to know a fellow who was an ardent pacifist.

Would not hurt a spider.

He used to train in boxing, Judo, Karate and Ju-Jitsu.

When I asked him why, he replied, “It’s a funny world. You never know when you might have to go a few rounds.”
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Pakar Ilusi
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Good thread critter. Smile

I'll just add that in "real life", if you are not proficient with weapons and tactics, you're really really shortchanging yourself.

No one fights fair when it is life or death.

I love BJJ and MMA but I'll take a knife (or a stick, bottle, bat, gun...) in hand any day to being empty handed in a real fight for my life or those whom I love.

I think you need to be sure what you are doing the Martial Arts for when you start...

Don't do Muay Thai if you want to compete in Kendo.

I know that sounds silly but if you've been around as many Martial Artists as I have, you know a lot of Martial Artists do it for the wrong reasons.

If you're just after fighting efficiency in a real life to the death fight, I say do Kali or Silat. A kitchen knife is always close at hand at home as is a pen in your pocket anywhere you go. There is a reason the Police are trained to shoot a person with even a small knife. Smile

Or conceal carry a pistol, if you can. Just that most folks cannot do that all the time.

Here's what I am talikng about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9xJejkInvE

Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
seadog93
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Quote:
On 2010-12-16 03:07, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 22:36, seadog93 wrote:

-I've also heard "hardened criminals" (who have been shot before) say that if anyone pulled a gun on them they would just take it away


Good luck with that...my girlfriend's has a decent-sized clip, and I'm pretty sure neither of us would just be pulling the trigger once. I imagine as long as nobody reloads, we could make a pretty good "heat of the moment" argument.


Maybe I didn't make the context clear, I was referring to an physically and psychologically unprepared person who buys a gun and thinks that they can defend themselves automatically. In most situations, if they have time to get it out, they will probably be fine but against the wrong person they will get their gun taken away.
It doesn't sound like that applies to you and your girlfriend.
Similarly with training you can effectively use a gun against someone who attacks close range, but you need to utilize movement and unarmed techniques as well ...which counters the argument of those that say martial arts are useless because you could just get a gun; you need to learn and train regardless if you want to be able to use your body or a gun in a 'live fire' situation.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
critter
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Re: Guns-
My Mom's abusive ex-boyfriend was mutant strong. He had one of those cheap plastic weight sets and would load the bar and just rep it out for what seemed like forever. I'm a strong dude, but I saw him do stuff I had never even heard of. I admit it, I was scared to go toe to toe with him. He was a drunk and a crack addict and that made him relatively impervious to pain.
He had me cornered once when I was trying to call the police on him for beating my Mom. He rushed me, I blasted him with pepper spray, and he kept coming. I jumped onto the bed and grabbed the back of his head and let his own momentum run him into the wall.
That dazed him long enough for me to get outside and grab a large tree branch.
He ran out the other door and hid though so I waited for the cops. After they had him cuffed he started screaming about the pepper spray.
What does this have to do with guns? Well pepper spray didn't work on his cracked out azz. The only way I was beating him H2H was if I managed to knock him out. So I bought my first 12 guage. He was a felon and therefore could not legally purchase a firearm, nor did he have enough friends to find one illegally. Hometeam advantage.
Next time he got out of jail and broke into my house, I chased him out with the gun and called the cops. I've related that part before. I'd have shot him if I'd had to.
Moral of the story? When in doubt, use buckshot.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Pakar Ilusi
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Wow critter, I'm glad you're still with us.

Is he in jail now?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
critter
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He did two years for stealing a Humvee and driving it through a fence. Last I heard he found someone else's mother to terrorize.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
panlives
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As my friend said, “It's a funny world...”, funny in this context meaning sad, tragic and dangerous...
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Cohiba
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Quote:
On 2010-12-16 01:21, critter wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 19:31, Cohiba wrote:
So, this post interests me for probably what you would consider the wrong reason. I get the point of the original post, and agree with that.

However, I have often wondered about the disconnect between martial arts in the movies and martial arts in real life. Before you think I'm crazy, know that I understand that a movie is a movie. I know it's all choreographed, made larger than life, etc. However, the movies are fairly accurate as to what martial arts are SUPPOSED to look like, right? For example, the blocks, forms (katas, etc., depending on which type of martial art you're in), and movements that are taught in martial arts classes look like the stuff you see in movies. Wax on, wax off, etc.

Yet when I see MMA on UFC, the fighters that claim to have more of a Karate background (for instance) do very little that looks like Karate in the movies. Again, I know this sounds incredibly naive - I know the movies are fake - but it almost makes me feel that martial arts must then be pointless (other than for the points made in the original post - though I would argue that there are better ways to accomplish all of those points if they are what you are after). Don't get me wrong - I've always been a fan of the martial arts. But when you see serious fights, it seems that everyone becomes a boxer. (Granted, I haven't watched very much UFC, so maybe I've missed fights that would prove me wrong.) Why do I never see the moves taught in martial arts studios occurring in UFC?

It seems like you need to be a good boxer, and then have some good wrestling skills for when you start grappling. They call it MMA, but I don't feel like that's what I'm seeing. Is the grappling / Jujitsu stuff about the only martial art in there? (I don't really consider a boxer who throws in some kicks to the side of the knee a martial artist, effective as they may be.)

I'm curious as to your thoughts.

PS - How bout Wing Chun? Anyone ever see any of that in UFC? Worthless?


I think there's some truth to your observations, but even with the grappling one can argue that Wrestling is a martial art, and there's no doubt that Jiu-Jitsu is a martial art. Martial arts aren't all punching and kicking.
I haven't seen Wing Chun used in MMA, but I think it would make a good addition to the MMA arsenal. Could be used to set up other moves.
As for traditional karate, I think Lyoto Machida for one has utilized stand-up martial arts techniques from traditional karate very well in his stand up game.
And then there's Anderson Silva. Mostly a Muay Thai guy, but he's won many fights with the kinds of stuff you usually only see in movies.
So I think that these types of techniques have a lot to offer in MMA competition.
You also have to realize that traditional gung-fu contains eye gouges and small joint manipulations which could be dangerous in a street fight but are illegal in MMA.
I think the sport of MMA is very interesting, but it's still not a real fight.

For a real fighting perspective:
My uncle (A former all-state wrestler and HS coach) was a bouncer who worked his way up to bartender. His friend was a Southern Style Kung Fu instructor, I never heard which exact style. Either Wing Chun or Hung Gar. Some guy pulled a gun on my uncle for cutting him off and the Kung Fu guy was next to him. My uncle's Kung Fu friend disarmed the guy before he knew what hit him. Kung Fu saved Uncle Ward's life that night, that's proof enough for me.


Thanks for that info Critter. I'll look up the gentlemen you mentioned.
seadog93
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There is a Wing Chun guy who competes in MMA. He isn't top level but he wins matches and has used WC in matches. I forget his name.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

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EsnRedshirt
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I think one of the points about mixed martial arts is that the arts are mixed- and they need to be. In the early days (based on my limited research) a lot of purists went up against each other. Those matches usually favored the wrestler types, who would close in and grapple their opponent, drop them to the mat, and put them in a submission hold until the match was over. Based on that, the fighters who focused on strike-based martial arts (muay tai, for example) realized they needed to expand their knowledge, as their martial art didn't have many counters for those types of tactics. Nowadays, MMA is really mixed- with the competitors drawing from multiple fighting styles to fit the situation as needed.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
seadog93
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Yes I think that's right.
Lyoto Machida, Anderson Silva and Chuck Liddell are all excellent strikers who keep the fight stand and knock their opponent out, but they have extensive training in wrestling and jiu jitsu so they can counter grapplers and get out of bad situations.

The first guy to really do this was a Maurice Smith, kickboxer who fought Mark Coleman. He learned enough grappling and wrestling to handle being taken down, survive on the bottom and get back up when the opportunity arose. He ended up knocking Coleman out with a kick to the jaw
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2010-12-16 11:37, critter wrote:
Re: Guns-

Moral of the story? When in doubt, use buckshot.


If you're really in doubt, use slugs!
"All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast!" - Oscar Wilde
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