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Daniel Meadows
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If you could fan a small packet of cards to a spectator (6 to 12) and have them remove cards singly, until only one remained, without influencing them or forcing them to take the cards in any order, and it turned out that, that card was the only red card and all the others were black (or only face card with all the others blank), what would you do with it?

I am thinking of a "Russian Roulette" type routine with blank cards and one bullet card. This way you can have as many spectators as you want remove cards in turn, and you will always be the one who snuffs it at the end! I think this may play well because it allows a lot of interaction.

So people what obvious presentational angle have I missed? What possibilities would this enable? This doesn't resort to gaffs and so if anyone has a method already in existence would they PM me please. For the curious the inspiration was in Pabular.
Cerberus Wallet, Equilibrium, Counterfeit, Deadly Marked Deck, Infamous, Instinct
r4bid
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How exactly do you plan on forcing all the non bullet cards? This sounds like a very useful effect...

Can the effect be done with the cards face down and having one of the faces be abnormal or only the backs?

I like the roulette idea. Here are a couple more

-A fixed raffle type thing where you are always the winner.

-The old classic find your old card by picking which cards you think aren't your card
Daniel Meadows
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My intention is to have all the cards face down in the fan. The visible side of all the cards must be the same (eg all blue backs)otherwise the effect would not look right. Using this the last card taken is the special card-their selection, a blank card, or a "bullet" card.

I do not want to give too much away but it does not rely on any force of which I am aware, I think it is quite devious. I will work some more on it and then I might share it.
Cerberus Wallet, Equilibrium, Counterfeit, Deadly Marked Deck, Infamous, Instinct
r4bid
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Sounds cool, can't wait to hear more.
grieve
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This is similar to an idea that I posted in the "we double dare you forum -> comedic card prediction". The presentation is different, but your force could be used for the trick quiet effectively.

I like your Russion Roulette aspect of it.

grieve
Thomas Wayne
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I think some of you may be heading down the wrong stream, methodically speaking.

Suppose ALL the cards are initially identical (blank, or whatever). After all are chosen (but for one), then the only necessary element is a good switch. Mis-direction should be easy, since no one knows the purpose of the repetative selections until YOU choose to reveal it.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
cardguy
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I agree with Thomas. That does seem like the best way to approach that effect.
Frank G. a.k.a. Cardguy
Reian
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I agree with cardguy, who agrees with Thomas. Good call. Sparks up some ideas...
Dante King
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I think that both the Russian roulette patter and Thomas' idea are on the mark. Why make it anymore difficult than you need to. I can think of a way to accomplish this without a switch, but the specs would not be clued into the number of cards.
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Daniel Meadows
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I honestly do not think a switch is necessary because why add more sleights?
To the spectator: they are removing single cards at a time until there is one card left which is IMMEDIATELY turned over to show it is the "odd" card. This does not involve a table or anything, and so is purely in the hands, and so a switch would leave you dirty.
Maybe my thinking is biased because I have a vested interest in the approach I came up with but I still believe it to be more direct.

I know it is hard to argue about an effect that you have not seen but please argue your side more fully, sway me to the dark side!
If anyone is interested in the method I have proposed then PM me and I will send it to you(if that is allowable), I was going to save it for my forth coming book (in 30 years time!) but thought I might share it.
Cerberus Wallet, Equilibrium, Counterfeit, Deadly Marked Deck, Infamous, Instinct
Daniel Meadows
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Just a quick post to say that I hope everyone who PM'd me has got a reply. Any queries, ideas, problems then just fire them my way.
Cerberus Wallet, Equilibrium, Counterfeit, Deadly Marked Deck, Infamous, Instinct
Paul
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Neil's approach sounds interesting. A switch with the last card would be right at the wrong time in my view.

But you do have a lot of bullets in that gun for a Russian roulette. Plus it doesn't really follow the scenario of alternate shots/choices.

Paul.
Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2002-04-24 18:28, Paul Hallas wrote:
Neil's approach sounds interesting. A switch with the last card would be right at the wrong time in my view.


I'm not familiar with Neil's approach; his initial post asked for suggested methods that DIDN'T involve gaffs or a force, so that's what I offered.

Utimately, it turns out that Neil was not really interested in methods suggested by others, but rather wanted to promote HIS method, presumably for the "glory' of it all. And though he followed up with a request for further "arguments" favoring other methods, as it happens, I haven't really got the time to play.

As for "right at the wrong time", my proposed method is to false count 7 as 6 (or 13 as 12, or whatever), easily palming the top [contrasting] card from the counted pile. I would then two-hand spread the cards for selection until only one remained. A simple, virtually angle-proof "Ernase Palm Change" later, and I'd be holding the dénouement, back outwards, at the tips of my fingers. A few seconds later, the last blank card would end up on top of the deck as it is picked up and turned over for a table spread to show that ALL the other cards are blank.

Incidentally, this is not hypothetical; I test drove a slightly more involved version of the above handling at a group get-together just a few days ago with perfect success. Ultimately, however, the plot leaves me a little dry, so I'll leave it for Neil and his sleight-light version.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Steven Youell
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Mexican Poker in Darwin Ortiz At The Card Table. That routine involves various ways
of doing exactly what you're talking about. The routine is also known as "The Ten Card Poker Deal". Remember that "Russian Roulette"
involves TWO people picking cards (chambers) so this approach would work well.

Best part-- NO SLEIGHTS!

Use Ten Cards, only one is red. Tell them Russian Revolvers have 10 Chambers--

Steven Youell
Daniel Meadows
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Gunney- I hear what you are saying as I have that book but it was not quite what I was looking for because it relies on a force somewhere along the line, either in how you pick up the cards or how you deal. I was looking for something that didn't rely on a force.

On the Russian Roulette matter where it requires two people to remove cards, fair point. It could work with myself and the spectator taking it in turns to remove cards as I would have a free hand, you would just have to have an even number of blank cards to start with.

Now to Mr Wayne: I was straight up with everyone and even said that I would be probably biased Quote "Maybe my thinking is biased because I have a vested interest in the approach I came up with but I still believe it to be more direct".

Quote from Thomas Wayne: "Utimately, it turns out that Neil was not really interested in methods suggested by others, but rather wanted to promote HIS method".
Oh really? So I didn't sit down for a couple of hours after you suggested using a switch? I didn't have a suitable method of hiding the card till the end and then switching it without it being too obvious what had happened. As for the last suggestion you made, I don't like the fact that you have to bring the bullet card back into contact with the blanks to do the switch. If you really had the bullet card left why would you not reveal it immediately? Why put it with the other cards?

Quote: "presumably for the "glory' of it"

I can't deny that this might have have been part of my motivation. But how about improving an effect that I thought would play well? How about discovering if anyone had beaten me to it? How about to find out an alternative presentation for it? How about finding out other ways to accomplish the effect? Surely there are many reasons why I would want to post about this, but you chose to focus on the shallowest reason that you could find, which I don't appreciate. You make it out like I am some egomaniacal newcomer that only posts to further himself? Now, did I share the method to anyone who asked? Yes, and they are free to use it as they wish. If I thought I was all that, wouldn't I want to keep such an effect to myself?

Quote: "Utimately, it turns out that Neil was not really interested in methods suggested by others".

Not true. I thank you for posting your method, as you were the only one to post one, but I couldn't get a switch to work for me. Does this mean that I am not interested in other methods? No, I just couldn't get it to work for me.

Quote: "And though he followed up with a request for further "arguments" favoring other methods, as it happens, I haven't really got the time to play." That was a genuine attempt to get some people to post. But if you are that sure of who or what I am, or think that I have a hidden agenda, then I will be glad that this "game" ,as you inferred, is over.

Quote: "his initial post asked for suggested methods that DIDN'T involve gaffs or a force, so that's what I offered." Yes. You did and I am grateful for your response. Just because it was not to my liking does not mean that I was only interested in my own method.

I thought that I was quite clear and open. I liked my method but wanted to see it's uses, limitations, and also it's alternatives. If I have somehow offended you by this then I am really sorry because that was not my intention. If you re-read my posts I think I explained myself.

Oh, and in future if you take exception to something I have done you could PM me and deal with me directly, instead of questioning my motives on the board.
Cerberus Wallet, Equilibrium, Counterfeit, Deadly Marked Deck, Infamous, Instinct
Roger Bliss
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The idea sure looks nice, and my mind is already working overtime for a presentation, because I feel you can do a lot with it. And I figured out some ways to accomplish it. But 1 thing, about the idea of a 'Russian Roulette', got me thinking. Who is gonna get that bullet card? You the magician? Wouldn' that mean you loose? Because if you get the bullet in Russian roulette, you die! Smile It's just 'something' I noticed. But when I got something of a presentation I let it know.

Greetz!

Roger Bliss

P.S. Excuse me for my bad English, because it's not my native language.
-He who does not try, knows not what he can do-
Daniel Meadows
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I think it is more the amazement that you get that far without picking the bullet card than the fact that someone is dying. And if anyone has to lose at this then I would rather it be me than the spec because I can shrug it off with my "bullet immunity card" or whatever I come up with. I think the idea of the spec winning is a nice one because it seldom happens against a magician!
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Paul
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Unless the card the magician is left with is the final shot for HIS gun, and the magician then shows a prediction that he will be left with the final bullet to fire, but will not do so thus preserving life etc. etc.

Actually I think this would be better with six cards than twelve.

Paul.
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