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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and Balls Final Load "Congruence" (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-12-30 20:23, Bill Palmer wrote:
Jonathan, I don't see any relationship between your answer to Kent and what he actually posted.


Bill, my post was not directed at Kent.

Quote:
Kent Gunn wrote:
Make the decision based on your own interpretation of the trick. Don't follow the rest of the pack blindly. Oh . . . and if you're doing Vernon's routine, word for word, dropping cups through one another and showing the inside deeper than the outside . . . I don't care what you think because you aren't giving my favorite effect enough thought or respect to embrace this wonderful piece of our history fully. Find a chunk of yourself to put into at least this effect.


I was expounding upon his theme and example by demonstrating that there is room to expand and explore even when starting with the Vernon routine.

I then suggested that the props and known methods can permit one to even reach backwards to the orange tree trick and do a version of that as a climax rather than going directly for production loads.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Bill Palmer
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Since you started your post with "Kent," I just assumed it was addressed to him.

However, now that I see where you are going with this, I agree completely.

I can think of a lot of reasons NOT to do the Vernon routine. However, it is a good foundation to build something upon. I like what Rafael Benatar does with it.
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fortasse
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The Vernon Routine is an excellent foundation. Once its fundamentals have been understood and applied by patient practice, one can then branch off in new directions. You have to start somewhere. Vernon's Routine is as good a place as any.

Fortasse
Bill Palmer
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I have a fondness for Guyot. But then again, so did Cremer. Smile
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Pete Biro
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As you note, on my site, I basically do the Vernon routine. Why? Well, maybe 40-50 years ago I learned it. There was little else that impressed me, other than Senor Mardo's work. Mardo taught me how to handle and use the cups and to do proper false transfers and loads.

Once I had it "down pat" I just stayed with it. To me the routine works, and allows me to have fun with it an to ENTERTAIN the folks. Since it did the job for me I concentrated my creating other routines with other props. I felt, for me, there was no need, or desire to come up with a different cups & balls routine. I have played with and created moves, but that's all.

And, to be honest, I more often prefer a bowl routine and have practically stopped using a chop cup.
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Andrew Zuber
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When a guy like Pete does the Vernon routine, he is doing it justice. However I've grown bored with the infinite number of other people who are ALSO doing it, and doing it poorly. Vernon's routine was not where I started with the cups and balls, which may be unfortunate because by the time I got around to seeing it, I was already bored to death of seeing everyone else do it, and therefore could never appreciate it as fully as others seem to.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Pete Biro
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One of the things I've found out about ANY ROUTINE... IF YOU GET IT ON AUTO PILOT YOU CAN REALLY WING THE PRESENTATION, LIKE JAZZ, AND REALLY ENTERTAIN FOLKS.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
dcjames
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Quote:
On 2011-01-01 16:20, Andrewzuber wrote:
When a guy like Pete does the Vernon routine, he is doing it justice. However I've grown bored with the infinite number of other people who are ALSO doing it, and doing it poorly. Vernon's routine was not where I started with the cups and balls, which may be unfortunate because by the time I got around to seeing it, I was already bored to death of seeing everyone else do it, and therefore could never appreciate it as fully as others seem to.


I couldn't agree more Andrew. When I finally got to see a video of the Professor doing his routine, I had already become a bit jaded by all the poor renditions I had seen over the years. Pete's take on it was a breath of fresh air.
“Magic is very easy to do - poorly.”

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Bill Palmer
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When Vernon did the routine, it was almost what could be considered in a coversational/lecture style. He normally introduced it with a line about it being the oldest swindle known to man (or words to that effect). The lecturing part of the style came about, I think, from the many times he performed this for larger groups at magic conventions.

Pete's style is basically Pete having a conversation about this venerable piece of magic. It's almost like he's not really doing a magic trick at all, but like he is showing you something really neat.

Each of us has his/her own style. Kent Gunn has done an excellent job of finding his. One of the most important things we can do as individual performers is to find our own style -- not just for the cups and balls, but for everything we do.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Bill Palmer
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I should point out, as I am sure that Baldi must mention somewhere in his work, that there are many different kinds of surprise.

For example, if you are a six year old child who has asked for a puppy for Christmas, and you come downstairs to find a puppy under the tree, you will be surprised, amazed and very happy, because even though you did ask for a puppy, you may not have actually expected to have your wish granted.

However, if you come downstairs to find a puppy, and there is a bloody, mutilated corpse of a puppy under the tree, you are surprised, but definitely not in the same way as in the first example.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Deceptor
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Actually the subject of surprise has been and continues to be given a fair amount of attention by the academic community. If anyone is interested I have a nice collection of studies on the subject in softcopy.
Always leave yourself an out.
Deceptor
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Bill:

Actually, if you ask for a puppy, expect a puppy, and recieve a puppy you might be very happy but I doubt you would be surprised because surprise is dependent on not getting what you expect. No doubt you would be surprised at the slaughtered puppy since that is not what one would expect.

Predisposition and preconcieved thoughts are very important ingredients to the phenomena of surprise.
Always leave yourself an out.
Bill Palmer
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I was one of the kids who figured out that if you wanted a puppy, you asked for a pony. The thing with asking for a puppy is that you don't really expect to get a puppy. You just hope to.

There are surprises that make you go "AHHHH!"

And there are surprises that make you go "AWWW?"

And there are surprises that make you go "EWWWW!!"
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Deceptor
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Surprise is one thing, reaction is another; they are not the same thing.
Always leave yourself an out.
Pete Biro
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Just home after a week long vacation with ALMOST NO computer... and find some nice comments about my work. Thanks much!
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Denis Bastible
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Surprise by definition is a REACTION - to something unexpected. I think it is the quantity, or level of that surprised reaction which is the issue here - mild, moderate, extreme or fried.
Bill Palmer
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There are good surprises and there are bad surprises. The surprise is the unexpected revelation or appearance. The reaction is the response to the surprise.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Denis Bastible
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Semantically, the noun definitions of surprise include both the thing or object that is unexpected AND the feeling (reaction) of astonishment or shock caused by something unexpected.
1) The fruit at the end of the routine was a surprise.
2) Imagine my surprise when I saw the fruit at the end of the routine.
Deceptor
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It seems to me that surprise is a reaction to the unexpected and widened eyes or Bill's Ahhh and Ewww are then, in turn, reactions to or expressions of surprise.
Always leave yourself an out.
spcarlson
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If you have Michael Ammar’s The Complete Cups and Balls, read Tommy Wonder’s great thoughts on the final load located on page 141, excellent ideas from a master.
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