|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next] | ||||||||||
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts 
|
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
|
|||||||||
RJ Hunt Elite user Lakeland, FL 466 Posts
|
The perfect gift for my good friend and neighbor Johnny Ace Palmer...They will sure keep PETA off his back...LOL.
Good find Pete... |
|||||||||
Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
|
The debate didn't start with Bob Read, David Devant was also a contender that the purpose of the CaBs was to bring the audience to the point where all the previous effect had been done to create the biggest possible surprise with the climax (and therefore he favored incongruence)
I like using (rubber) mushrooms for people know that mushrooms are very fragile and suspect less that they could be palmed and brought in (and are therefore left with no solution) Possibly baby chicken, even if no longer totally politically correct (but still favored by spectators) are following the same logic. For a while, I used to have a hamster appearing as final load in a Chop Cup routine (due to his way of moving like a military tank he was called Patton). Livestock increase the impact to an incredible degree (but it made me sad when Patton died). Surprise, surprise (as advocated by John Bannon) but consistent with the theme, the story, the character and some form of meaning in the routine...
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
|
|||||||||
|
jazzy snazzy Inner circle run off by a mob of Villagers wielding 2109 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2010-12-24 04:56, Lawrence O wrote: Here is Suzanne's version. I really like this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H2yrkH6nRQ
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz |
|||||||||
|
Denis Bastible Loyal user Buffalo, New York 293 Posts
|
I just pulled up Pete's routine . That was a LOW table to work off of. Nice job and very nice incongruent loads!
|
|||||||||
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9988 Posts
|
If magic is to be the story told after the show then there must be a balance between Anticipation and Surprise, i.e. the amount of Surprise is dependant to the expectations of the audience crafted by the performer. There is a modern tendence to use shock tactics with no Anticipation, but that is not Surprise in any artistic sense.
Thus, the choice of a final load must relate to the flow of the final routine -- alwasy asking, "What does the audience expect at this moment?" When performing for a crowd familiar with C&B the greatest Surprise Final Load would be not to do one -- or to pretend that there is one that only the priveledged few can see. "If there is enough magic in your heart you can see how beautiful she is!"
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
|
Denis Bastible Loyal user Buffalo, New York 293 Posts
|
Funsway- good points
|
|||||||||
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
|
If you have Sheherazade, you will remember that the ending of the first story, "The Ring of Sheherazade", had a finish similar to that, except it had a "kicker." The kicker was that some of the people sitting close to the storyteller could actually see the magical object, which was the eponymous ring.
When you depend on the principle that there will be some people who might be able to imagine that they can see the object, that's not strong enough. It's much better if you can get one or two people to think they can see it. Then actually make it visible. You could use the principle in Sheherazade or you could even pretend that the object is visible, then reveal it.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
|
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9988 Posts
|
As often the case, Bill's incredible experience gives a "preemptive view." imagine a C&B routine based not only having balls jump back and forth, but of being either invisible or visible at the will of the performer. After a traditonal demonstration it is shown that there are actually two balls under every cup, selectively made invisible by the magician. The Finale could be that all of the balls become invisible except for the "annointed few." These are manipulated about with approprate patter and gestures with aone spectaro finally getting to announce what is under the cup. What ever is names is shown to be true! -- two balls, a lemon, a larger ball, whatever. This would require some mentalism skills as well, but could be very impactful and memorable.
I know -- I should work it up and make a video, except that I am not sure it would work on a video, with everyone assuming a stooge is used.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
|
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
|
Sort of like a reverse on the shell game.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
|
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9988 Posts
|
I'd be interested in learning of other effects that use "the Emporer's New Clothes" approach (besides the Invisible Deck)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
|
Deceptor New user Omaha 46 Posts
|
You all bring up a subject that is very seriously near and dear to the practice of magic: surprise.
Over the years there has been much work on the subject and there are many references avaialble. Also much out there on the other near and dear subject of deception. As to Bill's challenge about measurement, I would refer everyone to the following URL and the work of Pierre Baldi. http://ilab.usc.edu/surprise/ The concept of surprise is central to sensory processing, adaptation and learning, attention, and decision making. Yet, until now, no widely-accepted mathematical theory existed to quantify surprise elicited by stimuli or events, for observers ranging from single neurons to complex natural or engineered systems. In work in collaboration with Prof. Pierre Baldi at the University of California at Irvine, we have developed a formal Bayesian definition of surprise that is the only consistent formulation under minimal axiomatic assumptions. Bayesian surprise quantifies how data affects natural or artificial observers, by measuring differences between posterior and prior beliefs of the observers. Using this framework we tested whether humans orient their gaze towards surprising events or items while watching television. Bayesian surprise strongly attracts human observers, with 72% of all gaze shifts directed towards locations more surprising than the average, a figure rising to 84% when considering only gaze targets simultaneously selected by all subjects. The resulting theory of surprise is applicable across different spatio-temporal scales, modalities, and levels of abstraction.
Always leave yourself an out.
|
|||||||||
|
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2010-12-27 06:03, funsway wrote: The late MarcoM had a presentation of the vanishing hanky that used the Emperor's New Clothes as the story. Instead of claiming that the handkerchief disappeared, he claimed that the fabric stretched until it was so thin you couldn't see it at all. "So the King's tailors crafted him a robe from this diaphanous material. He wore it in the parade the next day. "and that's 'The rest of the story'...." Quote:
On 2010-12-28 11:56, Deceptor wrote: In a way, this reminds me of the kid that pulled the legs off the caterpillar to see how it worked. BTW, a "congruent" study may be found in The Invisible Gorilla.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
|
Deceptor New user Omaha 46 Posts
|
Sort of like Davinci's human dissections a long accepted, and still practiced I might add, method of studying anatomy.
No one said the study of surprise and deception is an easy undertaking. ;>)
Always leave yourself an out.
|
|||||||||
|
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
|
If you haven't read The Invisible Gorilla, you really should take a look at it.
The main problem I see with the study in the Chabris and Simon book is not the study so much as it is some of the assertions they make, especially the way they play with the statistics. I find certain expressions in the Baldi material to be rather amusing, such as "artificial observers." There is an interesting statement in Mark Twain's On Christian Science in which he states Quote:
Mrs. Fuller brought in an itemized bill for a crate of broken bones mended in two hundred and thirty-four places—one dollar per fracture. I'm not saying that you can't measure surprise. However, I suspect that there is an element that I have noted in other scientific analyses of various elements of art. For example, I have studied music for most of my life. Scientists have been trying to explain various aspects of how music affects us by using mathematics. It really doesn't work. The Pythagorean explanations of how the modes affected people were based upon a series of false assumptions. And most of the modern interpretations of them have generally omitted the fundamental errors that made them work.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
|
Deceptor New user Omaha 46 Posts
|
I whole heartedly agree with your healthy skepticism and wonder if you would query the source of the research directly.
The real point of my comment is that I sure would like to see more on the subjects of surprise and deception as they relate to magic. Very truly yours,
Always leave yourself an out.
|
|||||||||
|
Jacques Loyal user North 206 Posts
|
As I understand it, the question would not be solved by measuring surprise, but rather the cause of surprise: congruent or incongruent loads.
|
|||||||||
|
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
|
Actually, one would need to measure the reaction. And then there is "the mentalist's fallacy." This is that the strongest reaction is stunned silence.
While this may have an element of truth to it, it can be difficult to distinguish between stunned silence and the silence of disinterest. We must remember that we are entertainers, and as such, our entertainment value can only be measured in terms of reaction.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
Dale Houck Veteran user Dakota J Magic at Saint Cloud, FL 343 Posts
|
It looks to me that going down the road the USC researchers are following and spending much time applying it to magic is a little like Masters and Johnson's study of human sexuality. Learning vicariously works, but other methods might be more enjoyable.
Magic is where you find it.....
|
|||||||||
|
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
|
I enjoy finding the fallacies in research studies. There are a number of them in The Invisible Gorilla, which they do eventually address, but they attribute certain actions on the parts of the observers to factors other than those who are experienced entertainers would consider.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and Balls Final Load "Congruence" (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next] | ||||||||||
Posted: Dec 24, 2010 06:50 am 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|