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LobowolfXXX
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I don't think it's clear that undermines her argument. I'm not sure there's anything inconsistent or hypocritical with taking the positions that:

1) The government shouldn't be providing service X; and

2) Since the government IS providing X, and funding it in part with my money, I'm going to utilize X.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Steve_Mollett
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Not inconsistent and hypocritical?!?
Ever hear of 'giving aid and comfort to the enemy?'
;)
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
R.S.
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Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
"If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."

Luke 14:13-14
"But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

1 Timothy 6:17-19
"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
landmark
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 03:25, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I don't think it's clear that undermines her argument. I'm not sure there's anything inconsistent or hypocritical with taking the positions that:

1) The government shouldn't be providing service X; and

2) Since the government IS providing X, and funding it in part with my money, I'm going to utilize X.

I think you're wrong about this. Murder is made legal. You don't believe in murder. Would it not be hypocritical (to say the least!) I don't believe in murder, but since it's legal I'll do it.

Or to take a less extreme case, replace murder with abortion.

But the saddest part for me, is that in a prior post Carrie indicated that she thought her acceptance of government aid was a failing of hers.

No, Carrie, not at all. That is what a caring society is all about--helping people when they need help.
Steve_Mollett
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But--but...that's COMMMMMMMUNISM!!!!
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 09:14, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-26 03:25, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I don't think it's clear that undermines her argument. I'm not sure there's anything inconsistent or hypocritical with taking the positions that:

1) The government shouldn't be providing service X; and

2) Since the government IS providing X, and funding it in part with my money, I'm going to utilize X.

I think you're wrong about this. Murder is made legal. You don't believe in murder. Would it not be hypocritical (to say the least!) I don't believe in murder, but since it's legal I'll do it.

Or to take a less extreme case, replace murder with abortion.

But the saddest part for me, is that in a prior post Carrie indicated that she thought her acceptance of government aid was a failing of hers.

No, Carrie, not at all. That is what a caring society is all about--helping people when they need help.

Given the supposed overwhelming generosity of the conservative crowd as mentioned in that article by Ann Coulter, I'm at a loss why anyone opposed to the 'liberal' programs would have any need to partake of them in the first place.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2010-12-23 14:32, Carrie Sue wrote:
So you post that to say what, exactly?

Carrie


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7NfDuDh0Uc
Carrie Sue
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On 2010-12-26 09:00, R.S. wrote:
Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
"If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."

Luke 14:13-14
"But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

1 Timothy 6:17-19
"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."

Ron


Didn't you forget Barnabus 4:2? "If you see your neighbor in need then encourage your government officials to extract more tax money by force from the rich and give some of that to your neighbor in need, minus the standard extravagant cut for the bureaucrats' salaries."

Carrie
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Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 15:56, Carrie Sue wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-26 09:00, R.S. wrote:
Deuteronomy 15:7, 11
"If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."

Luke 14:13-14
"But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

1 Timothy 6:17-19
"Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life."

Ron


Didn't you forget Barnabus 4:2? "If you see your neighbor in need then encourage your government officials to extract more tax money by force from the rich and give some of that to your neighbor in need, minus the standard extravagant cut for the bureaucrats' salaries."

Carrie


I assume you're just being silly, Carrie. Of course the REAL epistle of Barnabas 4:2 reads

"Let us give no relaxation to our soul that it should have liberty to consort with sinners and wicked men, lest haply we be made like unto them."

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Carrie Sue
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I was being silly, in that government social programs are neither encouraged nor commanded in the Bible.

It is individual, voluntary charity that is encouraged, period.

Carrie
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ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
edh
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Yes Carrie, but there is no charity in your heart. Smile
Magic is a vanishing art.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 09:14, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-26 03:25, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I don't think it's clear that undermines her argument. I'm not sure there's anything inconsistent or hypocritical with taking the positions that:

1) The government shouldn't be providing service X; and

2) Since the government IS providing X, and funding it in part with my money, I'm going to utilize X.

I think you're wrong about this. Murder is made legal. You don't believe in murder. Would it not be hypocritical (to say the least!) I don't believe in murder, but since it's legal I'll do it.

Or to take a less extreme case, replace murder with abortion.

But the saddest part for me, is that in a prior post Carrie indicated that she thought her acceptance of government aid was a failing of hers.

No, Carrie, not at all. That is what a caring society is all about--helping people when they need help.


I think your analogies are off the mark in at least two relevant ways. First, in the murder example, you're talking about the person performing the act which he or she is arguing is wrong, e.g. murder is wrong, but the person commits murder. To say that the government shouldn't provide Benefit X isn't the same as saying that people shouldn't utilize it.

More relevantly, though, the legalization of murder doesn't come out of the pocket of the taxpayer. In the "government programs" argument, the person against program X is being forced to pay for it anyway; I think that justifies using it while it's in place. In fact, I'm inclined to think that someone who uses (or is likely to use) a program that he or she argues against has more credibility that someone in the same position who argues FOR the program; for the person receiving the benefit, the argument in favor of the program has an obvious personal bias. Let's take someone who has no inclination to work, and receives government assistance for years; when he argues in favor of increased government welfare benefits, should we afford him MORE credibility because his argument is consistent with his actions? Of course not. This reasoning, of course, would not apply to someone who is benefited in the past from programs that he or she will have no further occasion to use (e.g. Clarence Thomas arguing against affirmative action).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Carrie Sue
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 16:55, edh wrote:
Yes Carrie, but there is no charity in your heart. Smile


And how exactly did you come to that epiphany?

Carrie
www.proximityillusions.com

ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
R.S.
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-Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Carrie Sue
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Ron,

Are you suggesting that I do live by this passage or that I don't? In what way, and how do you know?

Carrie
www.proximityillusions.com

ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-12-24 00:10, MagicSanta wrote:
...liberals are motivated by making money and destruction of the earth...


And just where do they expect to spend the money? Are they aliens?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
R.S.
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The passage suggests that God frowns on societies that do not help the needy.

-Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
thorndyke
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As a Conservative, I do not blame Obama for Welfare as it stands today, its a long time problem.
I am more concerned about what is done with charity contributions by any groups. I bought a ticket to a church fund raiser in the fall mainly because church meals are often good meals, and as a single guy I like meals made by someone else as my own skills in the kitchen are terrible. It is not their fault I paid scant attention to what the fund raiser was for - something about a camp for kids, which I assumed (Again, not their fault) was a summer camp trip for the underprivileged which is something I support.
Turned out it was for a bible camp in far off places where Christianity probably doesn't have much presence. I had finished the meal by the time the presentation on their work was started, so I just left. Now if it had been a summer camp thing where inner city children and the usual blah blah blah well I would not have been so rude as to get up and leave. Pay attention to what the charity money is for, ask questions. I haven't been invited to attend another one, but I will read the brochure all the way through next time.
Carrie Sue
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On 2010-12-26 18:35, R.S. wrote:
The passage suggests that God frowns on societies that do not help the needy.

-Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."


Ron


Who's suggesting that no one help the needy?

Certainly not I. So explain yourself.

Carrie
www.proximityillusions.com

ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
Steve_Mollett
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“Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying.”
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
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