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Carrie Sue
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OK, Steve, and you share that to say what?

Carrie
www.proximityillusions.com

ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2010-12-25 23:17, Carrie Sue wrote:
Balducci, you're way off the hook on this one. Scrooge seems to be in favor of the welfare state, at least as far as he pays his taxes and thinks that's enough. "Those who are badly off must go there."

I think that's quite different from the federal government paying unemployed people--yes, for not working--for two or three years. Unemployment insurance payments were supposed to be a stop-gap measure, not a way of life. Today, under the Obama administration, it's plain and straight welfare.

Carrie


Really? What did Obama do that no one else had done before?
BTW, the prison and the county workhouse would be the perfect conservative answer to the unemployment problem.

Prisons and workhouses hardly qualify as "welfare."
"All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast!" - Oscar Wilde
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 19:21, Carrie Sue wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-26 18:35, R.S. wrote:
The passage suggests that God frowns on societies that do not help the needy.

-Ezekiel 16:49
"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."


Ron


Who's suggesting that no one help the needy?

Certainly not I. So explain yourself.

Carrie


Notice that the sin is that the _city_ of Sodom does not support the needy.
"All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast!" - Oscar Wilde
Carrie Sue
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 20:52, ed rhodes wrote:
Notice that the sin is that the _city_ of Sodom does not support the needy.


You're kidding yourself on that one.

Ezekiel 16:49
"Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit."

But it was also this:

Jude 7
"as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

And then there is this relevant Scripture:
Quote:
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)—then ethe Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially fthose who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority.
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. 2 Pe 2:4-10


Carrie
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ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
landmark
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 17:00, LobowolfXXX wrote:


I think your analogies are off the mark in at least two relevant ways. First, in the murder example, you're talking about the person performing the act which he or she is arguing is wrong, e.g. murder is wrong, but the person commits murder. To say that the government shouldn't provide Benefit X isn't the same as saying that people shouldn't utilize it.

More relevantly, though, the legalization of murder doesn't come out of the pocket of the taxpayer. In the "government programs" argument, the person against program X is being forced to pay for it anyway; I think that justifies using it while it's in place. In fact, I'm inclined to think that someone who uses (or is likely to use) a program that he or she argues against has more credibility that someone in the same position who argues FOR the program; for the person receiving the benefit, the argument in favor of the program has an obvious personal bias. Let's take someone who has no inclination to work, and receives government assistance for years; when he argues in favor of increased government welfare benefits, should we afford him MORE credibility because his argument is consistent with his actions? Of course not. This reasoning, of course, would not apply to someone who is benefited in the past from programs that he or she will have no further occasion to use (e.g. Clarence Thomas arguing against affirmative action).

Not buying that "it's paid for anyway." Either you believe in the morality of something or you don't. Someone else can use the resource you're so against. "I don't believe in prostitution, but since they're offering free prostitutes, which I've already paid my taxes for, I'll reluctantly take advantage (it's a dirty job but waste not, want not.) And by the way, I'm an even more noble man than you, because yesterday on Meet the Press, I spoke out against the free prostitutes program."
EsnRedshirt
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Carrie, your initial post invoked the writings of the one who's name I shall not utter. I didn't bother to read beyond the first few sentences- she has nothing worthwhile to say, is spiteful and antagonistic, and even talking about her in a negative light brings her more publicity than she warrants.

She would rather label and call names instead of sit down, talk over differences, and solve problems. She, and anyone like her (on either side of the political debate), are what is wrong with the national political discourse today. We are better off without her and anyone of her ilk.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 23:44, landmark wrote:

Not buying that "it's paid for anyway." Either you believe in the morality of something or you don't. Someone else can use the resource you're so against. "I don't believe in prostitution, but since they're offering free prostitutes, which I've already paid my taxes for, I'll reluctantly take advantage (it's a dirty job but waste not, want not.) And by the way, I'm an even more noble man than you, because yesterday on Meet the Press, I spoke out against the free prostitutes program."


I understand your position, but I still disagree (strongly) with it. I think it's really bizarre and perverse to take the position that anyone opposed to particular government spending choices should be expected not only to take the tax hit from paying for the programs, but also refrain from enjoying any of the benefits that they're reluctantly paying for.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2010-12-27 00:26, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-26 23:44, landmark wrote:

Not buying that "it's paid for anyway." Either you believe in the morality of something or you don't. Someone else can use the resource you're so against. "I don't believe in prostitution, but since they're offering free prostitutes, which I've already paid my taxes for, I'll reluctantly take advantage (it's a dirty job but waste not, want not.) And by the way, I'm an even more noble man than you, because yesterday on Meet the Press, I spoke out against the free prostitutes program."


I understand your position, but I still disagree (strongly) with it. I think it's really bizarre and perverse to take the position that anyone opposed to particular government spending choices should be expected not only to take the tax hit from paying for the programs, but also refrain from enjoying any of the benefits that they're reluctantly paying for.

I think it is okay to take as much out of the program as you put in. After that, it is a problem / may become hypocritical to continue taking from it.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2010-12-27 00:26, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-26 23:44, landmark wrote:
Not buying that "it's paid for anyway." Either you believe in the morality of something or you don't. Someone else can use the resource you're so against. "I don't believe in prostitution, but since they're offering free prostitutes, which I've already paid my taxes for, I'll reluctantly take advantage (it's a dirty job but waste not, want not.) And by the way, I'm an even more noble man than you, because yesterday on Meet the Press, I spoke out against the free prostitutes program."

I understand your position, but I still disagree (strongly) with it. I think it's really bizarre and perverse to take the position that anyone opposed to particular government spending choices should be expected not only to take the tax hit from paying for the programs, but also refrain from enjoying any of the benefits that they're reluctantly paying for.

His position is perfectly reasonable and understandable. One of the chief purposes of government spending programs is the redistribution of wealth. To partake in a spending program one's taxes support thwarts that objective.
balducci
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"One of the chief purposes of government spending programs is the redistribution of wealth."

Personally, I think that is more of a possible result than a purpose. At least, where I live. YMMV.

But where it is more a result than a purpose, one is not really thwarting anything by participating in such a program. You are meant to participate, if you qualify.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2010-12-27 00:39, balducci wrote:
"One of the chief purposes of government spending programs is the redistribution of wealth."

Personally, I think that is more of a result than a purpose. At least, where I live. YMMV.

But where it is more a result than a purpose, one is not really thwarting anything by participating in such a program. You are meant to participate, if you qualify.

If I give the government my money and they give it back to me, it hasn't been redistributed. Tainted, perhaps, and diminished (S&H), but not redistributed.

Please tell me that you noted the sarcasm in my original post. (It was directed, specifically, to LobowolfXXX.)
balducci
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Sarcasm often doesn't come across in internet forums. So, sorry, actually I missed yours.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2010-12-27 00:55, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-27 00:39, balducci wrote:
"One of the chief purposes of government spending programs is the redistribution of wealth."

Personally, I think that is more of a result than a purpose. At least, where I live. YMMV.

But where it is more a result than a purpose, one is not really thwarting anything by participating in such a program. You are meant to participate, if you qualify.

If I give the government my money and they give it back to me, it hasn't been redistributed. Tainted, perhaps, and diminished (S&H), but not redistributed.

Please tell me that you noted the sarcasm in my original post. (It was directed, specifically, to LobowolfXXX.)


I always appreciate your sense of irony.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2010-12-26 20:42, Carrie Sue wrote:
OK, Steve, and you share that to say what?

Carrie


You wouldn't understand--or admit if you did. Smile
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Carrie Sue
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So certain are you?

You think you know me from reading a few posts on the Internet? I hardly think so.

Carrie
www.proximityillusions.com

ASLAN IS ON THE MOVE!
Steve_Mollett
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This much I do know about you: ultraconservative religious fanatic. Every post screams that.
Nuff said.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
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