I do the double lift 2 ways, one is a riffle up the back of the cards and then flip the cards over - the flip is a bit like a snap colour change. - it works extremely well. However a magician who I respect as a whiz with cards pointed out that mostly the way people turn over cards is pick up the long edge and flip, rather than pick up from the two short ends and rotate.

I have been practising the strike double which does not use a break and flips the cards from the long edge.....but I am not as proficient with it as I am with the riffle.

Whilst I will continue to practice the strike double (and I have put a lot of practice in already) I wonder whether laymen will actually notice the difference. One thing I have learned is never to underestimate people's ability to miss things. So from a purist point of view I can see that the Strike double is better, but from a performance point of view I wonder if it actually matters.

What do you think?

So I wonder how important is it to turn the card over on the long edge rather than the short one?

I think the look of a magician turning over a strike double is a giveaway, as almost all do it the same way. Specs may not know quite what you are doing, but many know something has happened. I use the snap turn over that Jay Sankey teaches in Extremely Ambitious. At times I will use exactly what you are describing, but I feel its one weakness is that turning the card BACK over is too hard.

To me, the important thing is doing everything very consistently, and not flashing the double. However you can do that, the further from "norm" the better in many ways...

I also feel there is much advantage in being able to do it several different ways...

Jim

I do a "push off" and I've actually started practicing taking single cards off and putting them back the same way. IMHo if you are consistent they will just take whatever you do as "flourish". If you do your double different from a single tough, then it potentially draws attention to it.

I would suggest, if I may, reading the chapter on multiple lifts in Expert Card Technique by Hugard and Braue. It's a super cheap book and easy to obtain. In it, the author describes not only what a "natural" lift should look like, but why. If you understand what the author is saying in that chapter, you will be well on your way to making more informed decisions based on the conditions you find yourself in while performing.

Best,

Dorian Rhodell

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. It helped.

Best wishes,

Danny

Danny,

In my opinion layman, will not notice the difference between an ACR with a strike DL versus an ACR with a thumb count. Like you, I've been working on the Strike DL for a couple years and it's just not there 100% of the time for me. More often, I use a no-get ready (Knock Out) DL that is possibly less natural looking than the Strike DL. However, the spectators don't seem to notice a difference - they gasp either way. I also do the thumb count get-ready frequently and no one is any the wiser. Good patter and eye contact make a subtle and quick get-ready invisible to the layman.

I too have been a firm believer in using the same DL but I also think the average spectator will never notice if you use a Strike DL one minute and some flourishy DL the next minute.

BTW, I was watching a Harry Lorayne DVD last night. Harry used a thumb count get ready and gripped from the short edge and rotated. Definitely not how a layman would lift a single card. So I guess you're in good company.

Tim

Thanks Tim,

I am not alone

A failsafe, foolproof way of turning any small number of cards over from the long edge (as you would with a strike double lift) is to learn the pinkie count and apply it to every lift you do (single, double, triple etc.)

Darwin Ortiz gives an excellent description of the pinkie count (a Steranko technique) in 'At The Card Table'.

Once you have acquired the technique, you will find that the applications of it are virtually limitless and it will be a valuable tool in your arsenal!

BTW, consistency with the Strike Double will come in the fullness of time; just keep working on it!

Thanks, if anyone has any guidance on the pinkie count I'd be very grateful.

Danny

Riffling up the back-end works for me, as well as Harry Lorayne. I just can't argue with that. In my experience, no layman has ever spotted that. To me, it seems like there are magicians that perform too many times for other magicians. This could be the only reason why they want to disguise techniques that have worked for so long.

I also use my Kick Double Lift/turnover and my Flip-Up Double lift/turnover, both of which I have published, but not as often as the basic lift from the rear of the deck that I taught way, way, back in 1962 (C-UCM - now is L:TCC,1). And, of course, I use my Ultra Move in place of a DL/turnover occasionally. HL.

I probably went about learning this the wrong way, as a beginner, but I'm doing the push-off. I like the impromptu-ness, and I think I'm doing it quite smoothly by now, but then again it can still be scary to do. I still flub it on occasion.

I thought the move looked too contrived until I saw it done smoothly, and I now agree with Cyberqat - if you're consistent, they seem to just accept whatever your 'style' of handling the cards.

Most laymen will accept any lift/pushover/turnover if done well. The danger is the layman with a little knowledge - the one who knows about DLs and has maybe tried the short-end simple version for himself. There are more of these guys around than you may think, and they tend to be verbal. So a strike, pushoff or turnover flummoxes them, as does a little snap of the card(s) beforehand as if making sure you've only got one. As always, the important rhythm of the move is not in the move itself but the moment AFTER, when you look at the face of the card. Try not to look at your hands until after the card is turned.

That is an excellent tip! Which I will have to work on...

I try to use a double like a TT..it can be seen but shouldn't. I always try to make eye contact and then do it and immeadiately look down after the card has turned. A lot less stress with some mis direction

I've watch people turn over the top card and there's no one way they all do it.
Also IMO there's is no need to be consistent in the way you do it.
How many times are you going to use the DL in a routine anyway??

Your hand comes to the deck and do the DL that's most comfortable.