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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 12:08, Al Angello wrote: I don't disagree. My point is that pot isn't harmless. I had a lot of friends in high school that were part of some weird underground pro-pot propaganda cult telling each other that it cures cancer and will be the savior of mankind. Most of them just sit around their apartments playing WoW now. I actually debated once in favor of legalizing marijuana though. Mostly because I thought it would be the more challenging side to take. I've never agreed with the whole "Doctors will operate high!" Okaaayyyyy, probably about as much as they operate drunk now, huh? And in the homes, before medical dispensations, it was generally accepted that some patients who couldn't swallow pills and were tired of shots would get 'painkillers to inhale' from their families, and that the nursing staff was aware of and accepted this as being for the good of the patient.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Balducci
The dissenters keep up their attack, but they haven't a shread of evidence to back up their biased OPINIONS. Critter You keep looking for that magic bullet, I wish you the best.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
I imagine most of us agree that pot can harmful if it is abused.
I believe people who are part of some "weird underground pro-pot propaganda cult telling each other that it cures cancer and will be the savior of mankind" are not the typical pot users. Stereotypical maybe, but not typical.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Here's a couple of links for schizophrenia and psychosis, I picked the ones that are easiest to understand:
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/51/4/273 "Significantly more and earlier psychotic relapses occurred in the cannabis-abusing group (P=.03). This association became stronger when mild and heavy cannabis abuse were distinguished (P=.002). No confounding effect of other variables, eg, other street drugs, was found. In all but one patient, cannabis abuse preceded the onset of the first psychotic symptoms for at least 1 year." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16319402?dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15871146?dopt=Abstract http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7374/1199.full "Cannabis was associated with an increased risk of developing schizophrenia in a dose dependent fashion... Cannabis use is associated with an increased risk of developing schizophrenia, consistent with a causal relation. This association is not explained by use of other psychoactive drugs or personality traits relating to social integration." So... not harmless. Not a harmless drug.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Personally, I think pot should be legalized.
Having said that, PART of the reason there are so many more problems associated with alcohol and cigarettes is precisely because those products are legal. I don't know how many people were killed last year in marijuana-related traffic accidents, but I do know that if it were legalized, next year's number would be a lot higher.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Good point.
I used to think that either all drugs should be legalized, or all drugs should be illegalized. I always thought it was stupid and hypocritical to say booze and cigarettes are okay but these other ones aren't. Nowadays, I don't know. It's complicated and weird and I don't know. But I do know that since my "dad" is schizophrenic, and the couple of times that I smoked pot it led to extreme paranoid delusional episodes that I wouldn't wish on anyone, I don't smoke pot any more.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 12:40, critter wrote: Correlational studies, even with best efforts to isolate specific variables, are still shaky at best when used to show causation. Phrases like "consistent with" and "not explained by X" leave a lot of gray area. Persons already prone to mental illness (or to more severe mental illness) may simply be more disposed to get stoned, even if that disposition doesn't show up in other "personality traits relating to social integration." That's not to say that there ISN'T a causal connection, but there's a reason scientists use phrases like "consistent with a causal relation" and not "demonstrate a causal relation."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 12:48, critter wrote: Yeah, there's an awful lot in play for the policy decisions involving legalization. One thing I think needs to be in place are far stronger driving under the influence laws.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Lobo
Pepole are dieing every day in traffic accidents because of cell phone abuse, but no one is asking to make cell phones illegal. There is a law in Minnesota that after a certain date it is illegal to ride your snow moblil on a lake, but every year some fool drives his snow moblie into a lake. You can't solve all of societies problems with unenforceable laws.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Accepted. But the "dose dependent and not caused by other factors such as..." pretty strongly implies in favor of causation. This specific quote is a counter to arguements about the old "Swedish Cohort Study" and is intended to counter specific statements about that one.
I posted the four easiest to read out of 300 studies. I haven't read them all. There are over 300 studies supporting the link between marijuana and psychotic disorders. It could be that psychotics are simply more addictive in general, but there is a much stronger indication that marijuana is the causal factor. This is accepted by the DSM-IV-TR, which is the primary text accepted by the courts when presenting psychological testimony, i.e. the standard text, i.e. the authority.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Lobo
I don't know what it is like where you live, but around here the cops stake out the after hours clubs, and stop as many patrons as they can every weekend. On Saturday, and Sunday mornings there are crews of convicted DUI criminals picking up trash on the side of our major highways. Pennsylvania has the cleanest high way system in the nation because of these armys of DUI criminals patroling the streets of our state every weekend. I can't imagine tighter DUI laws. The cops around here don't just give a breath test either they take you to the emergency room, and draw blood, so anyone under the influence of pot not only has to pick up trash, but they also loose their drivers lecence for a year. We are already throwing the book at people driving under the influence of ANYTHING.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
I am rather surprised, and pleased with the discussion here. I would expect more animosity, of course I did not hope for it. I am pleased to see there is not.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 12:03, critter wrote: No, I think we will just wait for the stats-no one has any reason or desire to read how the new DSM's are made... I have faith in them, but no way it says all the stuff you said about pot. Oh, and its HIPPAA ..
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 13:21, Al Angello wrote: I'm talking about sentencing for first and even repeat offenders. As long as nobody got hurt, it's just not that severe. You got people driving on the freeway at double the legal limit, and that's what they're doing - spending a few months picking up trash on the side of the freeway. Then the next time, instead of getting pulled over, he kills someone. Like the guy who killed Angels pitcher Nick Adenhart. First time, he gets 6 months of rehab. Next time, he kills 3 people, and now he gets 51 years to life. Talk about locking the barn door after the horse left. And yeah, his license was suspended when he killed Adenhart. Lot of good THAT did.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 12:33, balducci wrote: this is unrealistic and plain not funny. This lobby of yours does not exist. No one thinks it will cure cancer.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 13:42, kcg5 wrote: Actually, it's HIPAA.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Glenn
I am not pro anything, but I do hate the legal (fatal) drugs alchohol, and tobacco. I have had a lot of friends die from them.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 13:43, LobowolfXXX wrote:.. You got people driving on the freeway at double the legal limit, and that's what they're doing - spending a few months picking up trash on the side of the freeway. Then the next time, instead of getting pulled over, he kills someone. Like the guy who killed Angels pitcher Nick Adenhart. First time, he gets 6 months of rehab. Next time, he kills 3 people, and now he gets 51 years to life. Talk about locking the barn door after the horse left. And yeah, his license was suspended when he killed Adenhart. Lot of good THAT did. We have laws for reckless driving, driving while impaired etc. What does this have to do with smoking pot? Or pot's lessening the suffering of some with cancer and other illness?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-02 13:47, Jonathan Townsend wrote: It has to do with the possible legalization of pot. If pot is legalized, more people will smoke it, which in turn will bring about more pot-related traffic fatalities. I'm in favor of legalization, but I'm also in favor of stronger driving under the influence laws to partially mitigate the effects.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
When I brought up prop. 19, that thread was shut in about 4 minutes.... odd.
January 1st is the day 1 oz. or less becomes an infraction in CA, a very very small penalty
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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