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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
Funny thing, it applies to professional actors as well as professional magicians.
For some reason theatres and corporations hire out of town/state entertainment. When I was acting, Chicago loved New York actors, New York loved Los Angeles actors, Los Angeles loved Chicago actors. As a full-time magician and trainer, for at least the past fifteen years, I find many of my East Coast colleagues working the West Coast quite frequently. I on the other hand, have booked mainly in the New York and Boston areas, both mid and far south Florida, metropolitan areas of Chicago, bigger Wisconsin cities, New Orleans, and once in a while Texas, on a regular basis. What gives? These clients are paying for travel, hotels, and per-diem. They could be seeking out comparable performers within, say, their tri-stage area for far less expense. With the current economy, some of the Fortune 1000 corporations are tanking, media-watch-dogs are exposing corporate spending, and there are tighter conference/training/sales budgets. One of my goals this new year, is to drum up more local clients and bookings for my more upscale gigs. (Should I say I live in Las Vegas, LOL?) A few of my East Coast and South West buddies, really fine magicians, are so down they’re considering applying at Starbucks or becoming graveyard shift security guards! --Any thoughts on why the proliferation of this weird phenomena? --How we can innovate or re-brand to become more visible/desirable locally? --What we as marketing/sales professionals in the entertainment business can further do to combat this trend??? Hope this stimulates some conversation and maybe brainstorming, if the thread takes off I’ll add some of my thoughts too. Magically, Walt |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
You are so correct. People have always had the mentality of "the entertainment or speakers in my area are "local" and therefore must not be as good as those "pros" who travel from LA, Chicago, Las Vegas, etc." I have seen this apply for most types of entertainment events and venues. For some reason it's hard for them to believe that some of these great national (and not so national) quality acts could reside right in their area. I truly believe that that old mentality of "if you want to make it into the big leagues you must go to or be from...Los Angeles, New York, Las Vegas, etc. In reality I have lived in Chicago, Los Angeles and Las Vegas, and the same mentality exists in these cities too.
When I started in radio and television many years ago (in a major market), a famous personality/mentor once told me if you want to make it here, move away, establish yourself and then market yourself back to this area and you will receive much more interest at much higher value and salary. He was 100% absolutely right. I left that market, them re-marketed myself to that market as an entertainer, guest speaker (and at the time media personality too), and you know what... I am several decades later receiving more work in my original market that I ever did when I lived there, they pay not only a premium price but fly me in, all ground transportation, hotel, some meals, and best of all I return so much to my family it feels like I never left because they see me at least once every month to six weeks, with me staying there sometimes for four, five or six weeks at a time working continuously. I decided that instead of trying to figure out this oddity or trying to change it by educating my local markets to this incorrect mentality, that I would use this to my advantage. I now do this to four major markets where I work very steadily and at rates higher than I would have expected. Weird, but true. I have more thoughts I may add to this too as this thread goes on, as I know how I would address this situation today. Best of luck Walt. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
True, for some reason, folks believe that out of town people are better.
But wouldn't the next best thing to an out-of-town person be a local who works out of town? Maybe the promo material could suggest that you are both. A local that would enjoy doing more work at home. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Mark Boody Illusionist Inner circle 1366 Posts |
For a good read try "Acres of Diamonds". I don't know who the author is. It talks about this issue precisely. A short but great read.
Mark
Only he who can see the invisible can do the impossible. Frank L. Gaines
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Benji Bruce Special user 930 Posts |
Steve Cohen does a GREAT job at coming across as a top notch local magician.
It seems that the best way to combat this trend is to come across as exclusive in the local market. So if you say that you perform for companies then you are not exclusive. But if you say you perform for Millionaires (Steve Cohen's line) then you are framing yourself differently. I honestly think the only way a local entertainer can be perceived as higher value than a traveling entertainer is when you frame yourself as "upscale." You can't just say "I'm the upscale magician," you have to be consistent. So if you perform in a restaurant like Old Chicago then you will never be perceived as the upscale guy. But if you perform in the richest areas of town then how can anyone deny it? The type of events people see you performing at will determine the type of gigs you get. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I can sum it up in two words. "From afar".
Benji, you are partially right. And the local guy can position himself like that but right where the rubber meets the road as it works out being from afar lends a bit more to that imiage and it always helps.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Guys,
It's the old "You're never a prophet in your own town" syndrome. If you study history you'll discover that this type of thinking is quite common in many forms of show business, sales, etc. Gerry |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Yes, I often get hired and clients fly me in because I will "increase the prestige of their event". When an organization is trying to impress their team (or customers etc), having a non-local entertainer instantly brings a level of exclusivity and prestige. This type of customer treats me like a king and appreciates my work like no one else.
Selling local is a different dynamic. I then just a "local guy" and price comes up as an issue more often. And, yes, it's all about how you present yourself. Consistency in representation is extremely important. |
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Neale Bacon Inner circle Burnaby BC Canada 1775 Posts |
It is weird. In the past year a big chunk of my shows have been out of town, and I talked to Shawn Farquhar lately and he says MOST of his work is abroad now.
There is that weird thing about farther away must be better.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist www.baconandfriends.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-03 19:06, Gerry Walkowski wrote: Absolutely. Like I said you can "position" yourself any way you choose, but being from afar will definately up the ante. You are dead on accurate here.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Benji Bruce Special user 930 Posts |
But what Walt is asking is how do we make it so people don't think local entertainers are chumps? We all know that if you fly out then you are considered "better" than the local guys. But Walt is asking how do we go to war against this phenomenon?
(I think someone needs to call Steve Cohen and ask him) |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
We call can't be Steve Cohen; his image of an upscale magician is a rare thing to pull off. Steve Cohen is like a unicorn of magic. If everyone claimed to be upscale then there would be no downscale to compare to. Besides, Steve builds his credibility not only through his image, but by having a one man show. His one man show took a lot of hard work, dedication, and money. But, it paid off for him. Then again, he also travels a lot for his work as well; he doesn't limit himself to his show at the hotel because there are millionaires all around the world to perform for.
In regards to the economy, we can take a look at the way other performers are adapting as well. If we were to take someone such as David Williamson, then we get a different perspective. He is from Ohio and lives on a farm, and yet he gets flown all over to do shows as well. He isn't from a big town, and probably couldn't make it on a local salary. And, you will notice he has been doing more magic conventions lately. When I met him a little over a year ago, he very subtly expressed his frustration with the corporate market because the work has been drying up. It doesn't matter where he is from, if there isn't work, then there isn't work. Paul Gertner also claimed that there is less trade show work during his lecture. David Copperfield is sticking to doing shows in Las Vegas; no sense in touring with the economy the way it is. If anything, he decided to be a local Vegas guy (if that means anything lol). He may not be a hireable entertainer, but it does matter where he performs if most people throughout the country can't afford tickets. The benefit to staying in Vegas is if someone is going to go to the magic capital of the world, why would they pass up the biggest name in magic? Back to the original discussion. I think the local guy image is a tough problem to solve because so many people have different goals, markets, and styles in magic. However, I think the local guy always takes the heat because he can be written off as the guy who isn't good enough to travel anywhere. I think this is a great topic, and one to certainly think about. In fact, I just thought of an idea for a solution: I don't think the misconception of local=bad is going to go away just because we want it to. However, this is all about building the image of being an in demand performer. Even if you don't travel, claim that you do. Some may see this as lying, I see it as building the credible image of a "great performer" (Steve Cohen wasn't always "The Millionaires Magician" but he faked it til he made it). Once people think/realize that you travel a lot, claim to give a "discounted rate" for local shows. However you intend to reduce this rate (if at all) is up to you. People will realize that your higher expense (versus other local guys) is worth it because you are an in demand act who is willing to stay in town to do a show. And, they save by not having to hire a guy from across the country but still get the same quality act. The local professional who travels has much more credibility than the local guy who performs at Billy's 6th birthday. I haven't actually tried this out and some might see it as unethical. However, since I am a student studying public relations, I see much more now how important image building is and that many people use these persuasive tactics on us everyday. We are businessmen selling a product. Are we a name brand? Or are we the generic brand? |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
David Williamson worked in the East for an exclusive magic company. While there selling very expensive magic. I believe this contact with executives and may have lead to his getting an agent. Thus this lead to his success in performing magic. Now, with his agent booking, he can live anywhere he desires.
I often thought it would just be better to get a P.O. box in another city, and an 800 #. Then it looks like you are from another city. It is disappointing, when I heard that in our city we hired a magician from Los Angeles to perform at an festival event, when we have very good talent in our city. They paid in excess of $10,000 for his appearence. It was the magician that did the cups and balls with glass cups. I believe this works as well on a small scale as well. I once did a large area mailing to cities and towns withing a 300 mile radius of my city. I included my city as well. I got more response from the outlying towns and cities then locally. I must say it was fun driving to all the different towns for the shows, doing multiple shows in one day. Kind of crazy. |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-03 22:22, Benji Bruce wrote: Why fight it? Use it to your advantage. Overall, whether working local or far, creating a distinct positioning strategy valuable and specific to your target market is the way to become the preferred choice. This will be different for everyone. Mr. Cohen found his "formula" (as I call it). His formula works for him but won't work for others who try to mimic him - at least in the same way. I believe in tapping into your own personality to create a strategy that is distinct to yourself. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Scott, I agree with what you say, but a personality will not get them to call you if you have never met. It all starts at the beginning, they get a mail piece from their town or city and one from a large city several hundred miles away. What this string is saying, prospects tend to call the large city magician over the local magician.
Personality, image, etc. has not entered into the picture as of yet. Actually, one company called me for a holiday show, the reason he called was that the previous year he hired a magician from Chicago, for big dollars. He said, that he did not think the guy was worth the money. Now we all cannot wait for this type of experience to happen, so what are some good ways to influence the potential client to call the local magician. |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
Good discussion, some good ideas.
I agree the “stranger in your own land” issue is not going away. I disagree that you should outright lie, those always catch up with you, and it’s to easy to get tangled in a web of deceit. Having a true “second” address is perhaps more viable. I agree it does come down to adjusted and targeting marketing, creating an image, and a need, and perhaps re-branding yourself (the billionaire’s magician.??) There are those few cases where a client is burned by the far away big bucks guy and turns to the local market, but his does not generally happen with very respected, upscale talents. As noted, even very well known “names” are now rethinking their market and strategy. In my individual case, not many people offer the style and genre of magic I perform, and that has kept me going will into the recession, and allowed me to keep my rates in the upper quadrant. So let’s put the focus on, --the What/How/Where style and targeting of the marketing/sales solutions several have brought up-- --In rebranding, I will open up my “style” slightly, offering not quite the niche I prefer. --In marketing I will certainly use my national/international credits, and top client names/references. --I know the piggy-bank must be shattered and media materials updated, that’s long past due. I don’t know if this will be enough to fill in the lost income of long time clients. Good brainstorming! Walt |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-03 22:22, Benji Bruce wrote: Wow I hate to say it but this may show a bit of inexperience here. WHY would you want to fight it? There are far more places that you are considered "from afar" than you live in. I mean there are tens of thousands of places that are large enough to pay high fees that you do not live in. Why fight the perception? USE it to your advantage. The perception is there already to help you make more money with less work. Why in the world would you want to go to war against that again?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Benji Bruce Special user 930 Posts |
Danny I don't fight it at all; I love traveling and the perception that comes with it. But I was answering Walt's question. Someone might be similar to Eric Paul and not want to travel for family reasons, etc.
So if I wanted to do high paying local gigs then I would position myself as the most exclusive and upscale entertainer in town. |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
I'm not saying "fight" it. It's been fighting me.
--I've lost a number of my out of town/state clients, and they aren't easily replaced in this climate. --Travel is getting less convenient, less certain (getting there), and far less pleasant. --There are two kinds of luggage-- carry on, and lost, so there's a need to FedEx larger props. --So, to me a logical move is to augment the distant bookings with more local bookings. --As I first said, the long time trend is, in part, If your east you're booked west, and west work east. --That's were marketing, new branding, and sales technique, details come in. I'm all for "go with the flow" but there are some tricky dams blocking the rivers of late. Walt |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Having more then one address and telephone number is not lieing, it is a business address and telephone number. Just as an internet address is not your home address, it is a place for business and information. Giving actual living addresses can work against you as well. Many people rate you in their minds by where you actually live, that is why they have those million dollar homes. Give them your address and if it is in a questionable area of the city, you are lowered real fast as the same type of people.
We have mentioned the Million Dollar Magician. When he was noted on television, they shot a seen of him living in a Penthouse Suite, that was not his real address. It was image he was selling to the media. His is not that he is a millionare, but that he works for millionaire clients. He never gives this discription, as when he walked out on the Letterman Show and Letterman thought it was costing them a million dollars to bring him on the show. Joke or not, it was a consideration how people think. Lose of clients to out of town companies is really another topic, as this may be for other reasons then the client thinking 'out of town' is better. Remember, they would not be looking if they were totally satisfied with what they currently are using. This is more of an, are you meeting the needs of your client and giving them what they want kind of question. One local professional magician has local clients for over 15 years, does at least 3 corperate events a year for them. They would not change for anything, I know, because I have tried to introduce myself to them. The best way to help curve the flow of clients hiring out of your area is through good advertising pieces, either in print or on your internet site. Actual pictures of you at your previous events out of the area and through testimonials or references. It is much like finding a regular job, they want to know your experience and who you have worked for before. Another is of course using an agent to represent you, this puts you in a professional class at once. Not all magicians or business men are good salesmen and good salesmen are good magicians or craftsmen. Sometimes you have to reconize your limitations and go another route. Many craftsman have started business and failed, not because they are poor craftsmen, but because they are poor, managers and salesmen. Many have just wanted to work in their own shop, and they do, but nothing goes out the door to bring in income. So they fail. Our local festival hired the magician that does cups and balls with the glass cups from LA. They paid over $10,000 to bring him into town. Why, he was on television as I recall. He was actually no better then many of our local talent, which they have used numberous times, but they wanted them for free. I guess they believe if you are living in an entertainment city, you must be an entertainer that can deliver. Wrong thinking, but that is what you have to fight against. James Munton who post on the Café, says he had to move from the East to the Mid-West, and had to start all over to get business going for himself in a new area. He has devised a magician sales program tell how he did this in his new area. I am sure he had to use some of his old references from the East coast area, in his sales information, as he would have been seen as total newbee and having never performed a show before. I am sure his market is anything and everything in the way of types of shows. If you want to target market your skills that leaves out a lot of potential clients in one small area. Walt, you live in an entertainment city, what is thoughts? |
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