Biggest C&B mistake after insufficient practice: forgetting that "confusion is not magic."

I have to disagree and say that descriptive patter is not inherently weak.

Performers who don't take their eyes off the cups and mumble their way through it is pretty weak, but saying what you are doing (or pretending to do), or using descriptive misdirection does not weaken the effect in and of itself. It all depends on the performer.

I suppose it could be cute to pretend you are also entertaining some folks over the radio. "And for our folks back home that's two balls under the center cup." Then you could get the descriptions out of sync with the events and wait for the audience to notice. Or cue applause after a trick which you did not do.

Just a few thoughts on descriptive patter - really folks can see how many and where they are unless you are fussing with the props (confusion) or they are looking up at you as if to ask why you are doing that...

Here are a few thoughts I have regarding common mistakes in performing C&B:

Many performances have weak vanishes. The disappearance of the ball is really the foundation of any cup and ball routine, vanishes need to be strong. Vernon’s and Ammar’s routines have very convincing vanishes. I recall the first time I saw the wand spin vanish (35 years ago) I just about fell off my chair!

Also, I see so many routines where the performer is only doing a number of “moves” with the cups and balls in order to get to the final loads. A great cup and ball routine should be able stand on its own even without the final loads. The final load is only the “climax or finale” not the effect itself.

The cups and balls is a very unique and magical effect that really needs to be treated like theater. Tommy Wonder’s cups and balls routine is like watching theater.

Maybe this whole thing can be summed up in one sentence:

The biggest mistake some cups and balls workers make is performing it at all.

Spoken like a true collector and curator.

A lot of mistakes can and have been pointed out here..., but one saying I always go back to with the cups and balls is Vernon's "Confusion is not magic" A lot of routines are very confusing to follow, but not very magical. That's just one thing I always think of when doing the cups & balls.

Very funny and right on the money!

Yup!

I think the greatest mistake is not to try c&b thinking that you will make mistake/s...all of you would not be discussing here today and have so much fun if you did not overcome it

I think the greatest mistake is not to try c&b thinking that you will make mistake/s...all of you would not be discussing here today and have so much fun if you did not overcome it

Also, going too fast.

If one watches the plethora of routines on line (YouTube), you will find that some guys simply seem like they are "being chased." Their very presentation delivers as if each phase is meant to cut off a spectator's potential expository. They sound like they are "racing ahead."

As far as the "Egypt Fallacy" goes. When I do mention it, I say " . . . and in recent years, considerable debate has ensued over whether . . ."

But I don't need that one anyway. I have the text by Alciphron of Athens, which describes a spectator's narrative of the cups and balls--and that's like some 1,500 years old.

But I don't do the history lesson anyway, although I don't dismiss it as an option. I just don't like history narratives that are shallow, and sound like cheap, memorized patter.

Ricky Jay's of course, being the very high water mark for this approach. If one listens carefully, it is as deep as it is wide.

Concerning the misinformation about the cups & balls appearing in Egyptian hieroglyphs...

I certainly understand and appreciate Gaddy's point. If a performer is just spinning a story to make his routine more interesting, then it is not much different than the fanciful tales used in bizarre effects.

Sadly I am confident that the majority of those who perpetuate it do not know or care about the validity of the comment and are just repeating it because So-and-so said it in their routine.

Ricky Jay's 'History Lesson' is absolutely brilliant.

Re-reading this thread... (thank Mr. Palmer), depending on the audience I sometimes do cups and balls in FAKE HUNGARIAN DOUBLE TALK. Like "Minho congoo mordo nimbo sagwid... etc. With a thick accent.

And when doing Indian cups in a high squeeky voice as an IMPRESSION of the first time I saw Shankar Jr., and again in fake Indian double talk.

Master Payne - nailed it - Brovo!!!

The routine I use now (for the time being, as I had a cool "revelatory" moment devising a two-cup routine)involves a variation I created for a Pysch 1A final: We had to give a dissertation using specific terms with regard to memory. I wove in all the cool stuff like "Collective Unconscious," "Short term memory," "Long -Term" etc. It should go without saying that my final loads were commencorate with "Repressed memory."

Again, speed leads to the "Huh?" as opposed to the "wow!"

I think my two-cup routine could be original enough to see inclusion in the literature. We'll see.

How much "history" I put into the presentation depends entirely upon where I am performing the routine. If I'm performing for an audience at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, I put in a little more of it than I do if I'm performing at a place like the late, great Magic Island. Even then, the "history lesson" is short and gets to the point of doing the cups.

One of the niftiest threads I've read in a long time. Many of the comments posted can apply to more than just cups and balls. If there was a way to save "favorite" threads, this would go at the top of my list. My hat is off to all the contributors!

Highlight each page of the thread by using the "select all" option in the Edit menu. Then copy the page. Then paste it into your word processor.

Where are you located in Tennessee?

Creating a routine that'll appeal to your audience, not just be something that you like.