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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I was reading at the little darlings where a magician wanted to know how much to charge a young boy to teach him magic. This question left a bad taste in my mouth, because I started my performing career at my local juggling club, and all the jugglers there told me that we must SHARE THE ART or our art will die. EACH ONE TEACH ONE was the lessons I was told by every club member that gave me a free tip on juggling. This is why I am now, and always will be a juggler/magician, because juggling is an art, and magic is a business. Always remember my friends JUGGLERS ARE BETTER THAN MAGICIANS.
Just for the record when I sucessfully teach a kid the cascade it is a personal victory for me.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I apologize for spelling DIFFERENCE wrong in the title. I said that jugglers were better than magicians, not smarter. LOL
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Circus Bambouk Loyal user Tempe, AZ 256 Posts |
Didn't read the other thread, but it's an interesting question.
If I (a juggler) were already at a juggling club by choice, and someone asked to learn, yes, it would be part of the community effort and probably part of the spirit of the club to teach that person the basics and work with them over time until they have learned everything I could teach them. If I (a juggling instructor) am asked to come into a school or camp and teach, I get paid a fee. If I (a father with a career) were asked by a family to teach their young child to juggle, meaning take time away from my business and family to do so, I would probably charge a fee. If I (a juggler) were asked what makes a good juggler, I would say, lots of practice. There is no secret to the success, just try tricks and keep trying them until you can do them consistently. If I (a magician) were asked by anybody to tell them all the secrets of all the magic I do with no guarantee that they actually cared about the art and craft but were in fact just after a bunch of secrets so they could post them on youtube or yell out the methods at a magic show... You can do some amazing, I mean AMAZING magic right out of the box with a bare minimum of practice. You just need to know the secret. With juggling, you need to work really hard to get good enough to earn a living as a juggler. My two cents. -Brian |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Brian
I have taught 500 kids to juggle in one day for a lot of money, and I have taught strangers that walked up to me while I'm practicing in the park to juggle for free. My point is, although there are exceptions to the rule magicians sell their knowledge, and jugglers give it away. The amount of money that I have spent on the finest juggling equipment is but a drop in the bucket in comparison to the amount of money I have spent on magic over the years.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Circus Bambouk Loyal user Tempe, AZ 256 Posts |
Hi, Al,
I actually don't think we're arguing two different sides of the issue here. We've had, I'm sure, many similar experiences. I teach 500 kids to juggle all the time. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the difference; trying to explore your question, rather than dispute your point, or justify it. Sure, you'll spend more on magic than on juggling. A good juggler can buy five clubs and build a show around that. Add a hat and a unicycle, and you're a headliner on a cruise ship. Good luck getting a store-bought magic trick that gets you more than five minutes onstage (as performed with the included 'patter'). I think the issue is, with juggling, the knowledge and skill is ON DISPLAY during the performance. There are no secrets. Sharing some juggling technique with a fan will not result in that fan yelling to the next juggler: "I know how you did that--lots of hard work and practice!" And even if they did, the performance would not suffer. In fact, I think it's funny, and I will train my daughter to do that in all of my future shows. With magic, a casual, un-invested magician is probably the worst kind of audience member. The secrets hold inherent value. If you want gimmicked or fancy lacquered props, those will cost money too. We're a niche consumer base. If Walmart suddenly became interested, prices would drop. As would value--the more people who have the secret, the less that secret is worth. Also, in most cases, a juggler can hand their props to a layperson, and that layperson cannot immediately duplicate what the juggler has done. How often can that be said about magic? In MANY CASES what magicians are actually doing...is pretty easy. And yet they're charging money for doing those easy things. Where is the value? In the secrets. And the elephant in the room is 'shame'. In juggling--you either hit the trick, or you drop. In magic, you can sort of do a less than great false transfer that flashes to half the room...you get the idea. Magician to magician? I share freely. Juggler to juggler? I share freely. (not that most magicians or jugglers care what I have to say...) Jim Cramer gets paid to share his stock advice. Emeril gets paid to share his recipes. If you want to be a lawyer, sure you could go to the public library and read all the books and take the bar, or you could go to law school--which ain't free. Yes, as you say, there are exceptions to the rule. I have had wonderful, lengthy conversations with scholars and practitioners of the arts who have influenced me and taught me wonderful things. And look at this place--lots of healthy, free and open discussion. Perhaps rather than focusing on the negative (as we all know, 99% of everything is s#!t) we can focus on the positive. That's usually my goal as I enter a new year. Happy New Year, and look at all the wonderful sharing here on The Magic Café, which doesn't cost a dime. For that, I am thankful. Kindly, Brian |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Brian
You have made me realize that the purpose of this thread is me blowing off steam.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
SeasideShowman Elite user Myrtle Beach, SC 443 Posts |
Brian & Al,
Thank you for a nice exchange of ideas and realizations. IMHO Magic and Juggling are hobbies to some and performance art to others. It's not the props, it's the presentation. It's not the person, it's the performer. Make it nice for the people. Be Well and Be Good, Cap'n Mike, Seaside Showman ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
"I didn't care if they were laughing at me or laughing with me ... as long as they were laughing" - Unknown
www.MagicAtTheBeach.org "I'm with it" |
Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Al, I appreciate you taking your time to teach me how to juggle at the Abbotts Get together. I want to thank you forever, but forever isn't long enough.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Mike
I was just sharing the art like others have shared it with me.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Pokie-Poke Special user Bensalem, PA 883 Posts |
So, a juggler and a magician are hanging out when the magician dose a trick. "that's a cool trick!" the juggler said, "how long did it take to learn?..."
A bit later, the juggler dose a trick. "that's a cool trick!" the magician said, "How mutch did that cost?..." I teach on my terms for free, on others terms for a fee.
www.pokie-poke.com
The Adventure cont... |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Pokie
Great post. Are you still busking in Phoenixville?
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Pokie-Poke Special user Bensalem, PA 883 Posts |
Nah. it got political, and un fun.
also when it went every week insted of first fri, it watterd down the crowds. "oh we can go next week" kinda thing. funnie thing is I just moved closer.
www.pokie-poke.com
The Adventure cont... |
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I thought that Phoenixville was just jerking you around from the get go. I won't be applying for that job.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
Pokie-Poke Special user Bensalem, PA 883 Posts |
Nah, it started by helping out some friends, we would hang out and all was good.
but it went down hill from there.
www.pokie-poke.com
The Adventure cont... |
DanielCoyne Special user Western Massachussetts 544 Posts |
What's the difference between juggling and magic?
A juggler makes the impossible look easy, and a magician makes the easy look impossible. (Not exactly accurate, but enough truth in that to be worth sharing.) -Daniel |
Johannes Lindrupsen Regular user Norway 111 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-02-12 14:03, DanielCoyne wrote: I think that was a great way of saying it! The one quote that I her most after all my juggling performances has to be "It looks so easy when you do it" As supposed to magic when it's more in the lines of "That is impossible! You aren't allowed to do that" Most of the time the magic trick took a lot less time to learn than the juggling trick. Classic force > 6 balls -Johannes |
itshim Elite user Milton Keynes 417 Posts |
If you go to a juggling convention loads of jugglers will be happy to show you what they do and how they do it. If you go to a magic convention loads of magicians will hide in corners with their cliques. The very essence of being a magician is to hide away your knowledge. That is why I am a juggler.
As a magician I have spent less than $200 and earnt many times that amount. As a juggler I have spent over $5000 (but I wouldn't care to guess how much more) and earnt much more. The earning power is, I believe, similar. Albeit there are many more famous magicians, but then there are many more magicians. The secret to both as a performer is your personality and not the underlying skill. Nigel
I knew a man who kept saying "pliers, pincers, scissors". He was speaking in tongs.
www.itshim.co.uk |
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