Perhaps I am being naive but I still cannot get my head round how a DU done well is comparable with a pass done well as the latter is invisible. I do however think you are probably better doing a good DU than a bad pass, but I still think that all things being equal, the DU is far from the most deceptive control available. Easy and convenient? Yes, and perhaps that is the reason for it's popularity. You could also argue that in most layman's minds they don't remember such minor details anyway, but if you can do something that no ones can see and conditions are correct, I cannot think of a reason why you wouldn't.

I've nothing against the DU and have been known to use it, but I wonder if it was an extremely difficult move to learn, whether we'd bother or not I.e do we use it because it's the best or the easiest?

Love that double undercut, but only for getting a card from the top to the bottom. In most other cases there's usually a better alternative.

DUDE-- that's YOUR theory?!?!?

I have never seen a "layman" do anything like a DU when asked to cut the cards.

If you put the card back in the middle of the deck at a random spot, isn't it already lost? No need to do a double undercut to "prove it's lost". It can't get anymore lost. You already don't know where it is.

No, not in the literal sense of me coming up with that way of working. I am well aware of the teachings of people of far superior skill to
Myself. I was just saying it is how I try to work with cards as well....to the best of my ability.

True, but if you'd like to flash the card above it and patter accordingly now you have justification to mix the cards. Of course, this depends upon your performance style.
I am not embarrassed to say I can not do a good pass...I can do a cut pass and I can pull it off, but have to add to my patter something like Chris Angel the mind freak could cut right to your card....show bottom, but say, but this( facedown card) could be your card....

As with any card sleight, a DU is a nice addition to any card workers' arsenal. The use of a DU will be determined by what you need accomplished in the most deceptive way.

Andrew Musgrave echos my feelings on its use.

I never used that sleight and probably never will. Learn a good pass or try to learn a shuffle control.

You may very well be missing out on a good arrow for your quiver! I (as do many who have posted here) have some pretty competent shifts as well some even better shuffle controls in our arsenal but still find the DUC and some of it's variants quite useful in certain situations!

Then again, you may have everything you need for what you do!

MMc

I usually do the pause, then a double undercut followed immediately with a three-packet false cut, so it all looks like one cutting procedure, then generally a quick face-up shuffle followed by a face-down jog shuffle. Maybe that's overdoing it, but the whole sequence really only takes a few seconds, during which you're talking. Perhaps some folks suspect the truth, but it's pretty impossible to follow what's actually going on, IMO.

I agree about Harry Lorayne's naturalness. After recently watching an introductory 30 minute tutorial by him on card control on one of the IMS compilations, he reinspired me to have faith in the jog shuffle, and to spend more time developing a nonchalant rhythm while talking. He even sometimes does that Lennart Green/Columbo thing where he drops a card or two and doesn't seem to care.

Other than that, I really like the spread pass.

I think I was dropping cards before Lennart Green was born!! HL.

Touche Harry!

The jog shuffle is a fantastic slight. The problem is the double undercut. You have to follow it with another sleight to muddy the waters. It's not as strong as doing a better method in the first place.

I suggest learning the side steal. It will elevate your card magic to another level.

Scotty York teaches a simple method on his A-1 DVD set ( volume 2 ). That will get you going right away.

Michael Ammar has an in depth lesson on Marlo's side steal on volume 4 - A Touch of Magic with Cards DVD. You also get some incredible card magic.

Seems to me the question is when you do it for layman does it fly? The double cut can be fine and there a lot of ways of accomplishing the same thing but if it works it works. That said I would hate to have only one method.

Gil Scott

Tools in the tool box, etc etc.

It almost seemed the answers where pointing to the real question: Is the DU sufficient performing for magicians?
Now I feel a riffle shuffle and a Winnepeg cut isn't enough after DU- well at least for school shows it is, I hope.

"My own belief is that the deception of the double undercut is directly proportional to the conviction of the one using it. If you don't feel it is convincing you will not be able to sell your spectators on that fact. Jay Sankey uses it a lot and I would say his spectators firmly believe their card is lost in the pack because he has absolute conviction that what he is doing really is losing the card in the deck."

well said. a compellingly sold DU can be sufficient to set up a dazzling climax. most lay people aren't even familiar with the concept of controlling a card, and don't have any idea what you'd do with it once it's controlled. a cursory, even careless. overhand can deepen the sense that the performer has lost any knowledge of or contact with the card. by contrast, there's the conspicuous sort of move -- and it can come in either a highly skilled flourish or a bumblingly obvious cut -- that just feels wrong. even if they can't put a name to the move or describe the controlled card's exact path, the sense that something is off infects at least that trick, to its climax, and potentially compromises everything you do. in short, a well done DU is just fine

I would agree that it IS enough for lay people. When performing to the magicians on the other hand they will spot it, but then they'd pretty much always spot a pass etc too! If you are confident doing a move and don't call attention to it, people will not be looking. I always use the DU with a jog shuffle after to add a convincer just in case and I've never once been pulled up on it.

If you're doing passes, controls, etc. The DU should be like breathing since it's one of the first sleights you end up using. The problem I see with it is when people do it immediatly after they already cut the deck, or if a card is returned. Another mistake people make is flash the exposed br**k on the side before doing it. This can be combated with either keeping the br**k towards your body, or instead of using a thumb br**k switch to and erdnase br**k.