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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Hi Guys,
I'm trying to work out the tell of when an opponent looks at their hole cards when they've been dealt and how they set the cards down. This is what I've come up with. Let me know what you think: A quick look : Strong hand. instantly identifiable such ace AA or KK A long look :Working out the straight A medium look : checking if the hand is any good ....nah. Weak hand Set downs : the set down is fast : strong hand . he wants to hide the goods from view. the set down is slow : probably a drawing hand - especially if the opponent looks like he is counting outs. the set down is medium paced: Probably a weak hand. If the opponent slouches then the hand is weak. |
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cinahcem New user 61 Posts |
This sounds somewhat familiar. You should watch Mike Caro's Pro Poker Tells. Here is a youtube link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeyglBBYqtE |
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splice Inner circle Canada 1246 Posts |
Doesn't sound right to me.
Tells don't tell the whole story. If you really want to research them, the classic Caro book along with "Read 'em and reap" should get you well on your way. I can certainly think of situations where someone would be taking a "medium" look with a "medium paced" laydown and have a hand completely unlike what you would expect with your reads. People don't look at their cards with the same rhythm or speed every time, and what is fast for someone may be slow for someone else. What you should first concern yourself with are the actors themselves, not the acts. EDIT: This is completely disconnected from the subject you brought up, but looking at your profile, you list your web site as "www.the_mac.com". The character "_" is invalid in domain names as per RFC 1035. Whoever let you register that name or registered it for you is acting in bad faith. A good number of people will never be able to load that web site because the name is invalid as per the standards that drive the net. |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Hi, thanks for that. I don't use that web address nymore. Need to update the profile.
Back to tells, I'm watching Joe Navarro, a former FBI agent turned poker tell expert, discuss this and he says that valuable hands are handled as such they are laid done with care after being peeked. Also that good hands tend to move forward towards the centre of the table with each peek. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Poker tells can be useful IF you get them right. IF you get set up they are deadly.
I am saying that my brother in law is a boom to the repair man. Not because he knows how to fix things, but because he THINKS he knows how to fix things. In trying invariably he ALWAYS makes it cost himself twice as much as it would have. How does this relate to poker "tells"? THINKING you know will cost you twice as much money as not knowing. AT LEAST. You are better off spending a couple hours playing with the individuals and making notes and keeping track than you are trying to generalise. (In general that is.)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
I generally look at the cards and then set them down again as quickly as possible, then think, "Jeff, what cards did you see?". Then I go on to evaluate my hand.
Periodically I take a second or even a third look at my cards. Usually this is done on a purely random basis; but this habit covers any second look that I might really need. But now I'm thinking I've been doing it all wrong; I should instead be throwing feints that the others can use as "tells" against me. Pass the OREOs! |
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splice Inner circle Canada 1246 Posts |
True that. Poker games are not like in Hollywood movies, where the cards barely matter and the greatest importance is on the physical tells.
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
I'm speechless...
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cinahcem New user 61 Posts |
More importantly than tells are betting patterns.
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-28 10:55, AMcD wrote: Why, Arnold? Did I say something stupid? |
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splice Inner circle Canada 1246 Posts |
I think that's just a late reaction to the first post.
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Yes, you're probably right.
I guess Arnold and I need to kiss and make up. It might save some...ah... something. |
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Yes, Splice is right, I was a bit offbeat with my answer obviously connected with the first post. Stone, you are getting paranoid, there is nothing wrong or bad between you and me. I don't really get you about that.
Some explanations (now I've got more time) about my post. Tells are important when you play cards. No one can deny that. How many beginners are just unable to control their emotions? (many old timers have tells too ). It's not a waste of time to study tells, to read books about that. Caro's one is very famous. Probably too much famous as some people now fake tells because his book... But to rely upon tells only is certainly too much. As Splice says, people are just different, it's really risky to get conclusions only because someone looked at his cards according some patterns. It may cost you some money at one moment or another... I said I was speechless because it's the first time I read someone apparently paying so much attention to tells, I mean, deducing very important decisions out of it. And it takes just a few minutes to understand it's really a dangerous strategy. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
I play one heck of a lot of Poker at least 3 times a week and many times 4. Having said that I have used tells on occasioin to my advantage but they have been few and far between.
There are different uses of tells. By that I mean one individual has a tell that I noticed about a year ago and he still has it. When playing and the bet comes to him and no one hs yet to bet if he checks and hits his cards with his fingers as he says check he has garbage and is hoping to see another card for free. That is a tell from just this one individual not a tell that is universal. One tell that I have seen that holds up pretty well (not always but often enouogh to use when you have to make a decision) is an all in bet by an individual that when he will push all in if he begins to count the chips laying them out in an orderly fashion he does not have the nuts and is hoping you either fold or is on a draw or a maraginal hand at best. However I have seen some players who do this on all of there all in bets. So you must know your competition. All I am saying is that up to this point in ithe hand if I have a decision to make this may make me call. Again not an absoulte. A lot depends on my chip stack how many players yet to act etc. You know the drill you must take into consideration several factors and nothing is etched in stone. Just some of my thoughts on tells. They make me nervous. I often wonder if I telegraph any. I try very hard to make all my bets the same way all the time and handle my cards the same way all the time.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Kirjava Regular user 118 Posts |
I think that tells can be faked, up until a point. For instance, most people can fake a smile, but it will always differ from a genuine one although they probably tried to fake their smile a lot more often than they tried faking a tell. How could you then fake a tell when you are under that much more pressure ?
An good idea would be to stack someone Aces, and then to watch and record their reaction as soon as he/she watches his/her cards: this should provide an insanely accurate baseline for the remainder of the game. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-29 08:42, Kirjava wrote: First off I do not cheat. That is not poker that is stealing. If you must cheat, don't get caught it can be hazardous to your health...anyway it can be in the games around here. Happened twice in the last ten years.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Quote:
First off I do not cheat. That is not poker that is stealing. Depends. Sometimes, cheating is the only way to get the game fair because other people are cheating or are given unfair advantages. Say you play a tournament. You go to the final table, you're the only foreigner and they start playing against you. How do you call that, fair game? Me I call that cheating. And it's just an illustration. Cheating is everywhere. You don't have to face a bottom dealer to be cheated, three old timers playing together are enough to ruin your game. Worse than that, very often they hardly realize they're cheating, it's just a normal habit for them, they do that for ages! When I have to face such situations I use the same weapons than my opponents, nothing more. I'm gonna tell you, I play cards for decades, I've never seen a 100% fair game. Never. There is always someone trying to get some advantage at one point. Of course, it ranges from goose necking to a professional crew of hustlers, but a fair game is a dream. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Cheating is never the way to get a fair game. There is no such thing as a fair game with cheaters involved. That of course is my opinion and your milage may vary. There is a way to deal with cheaters and it has been done in our area and works well.
Adressing your comment on being in a tournament and they start to play aganist you. I welcome that. As long as no cheating occurs such as stacking of cards and dealing predetermined hands (cold decking). I am not opposed to what one might call "ganging up" with the exception of pushing off chips to just one individual and making him a huge chip leader in a tournament style game. I feel sorry for you for never having found a fair game. You do not know what you are missing. Not sure where you are from but if you ever get to Northeast Pa. let me know and I will treat you to a fair game of poker with great people. I will let you be the judge what you think of the game when it is over. We only play 4 games any more. 5 card stud, 5 card draw, Seven card stud and holdem both cash and tournament style. Both limit and no limit are played. You would not believe it but just about every night we play there are at least 3 or 4 misdeals because someone claims to have seen another players card that was flashed by the dealer. I think that goes to far but I am just saying...
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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cinahcem New user 61 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-29 20:41, acesover wrote: You have good intentions however I will have to agree with amcd on this one. Two people working together can take down most games. It funny that you mention Northeast Pa. I am from Scranton Pa and I have seen collusion at the table many times. I don't need to point it out, however I seen it. |
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Maitre D Veteran user 339 Posts |
Acesover, I suggest you read (or re-read) the collusion chapter in Poker Protection.
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