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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Double edge sword of ethics (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-02-02 15:48, truthteller wrote:
It's been my experience that when someone feels their are legitimately wronged, they usually come forward with as many details as possible - they don't hide behind allusions and vague accusations. There is nothing to be gained from that, unless it is your goal to obscure part of the story.


Definately, and you inadvertantly (I think.) hit on another part of the problem. The person may FEEL wronged, but it is possible that they have not been. It is possible that the person FEELS that this or that has happened, and he only has 1/2 the facts at hand. His FEELING is not as important as the actual truth and as you say bring it out. It does seem as if obscuring part of the story is what is the goal. Maybe not, but things are what they are.

This is the thought process behind the "truth is usually in the middle" theory. Each person adds FEELINGS to their "truth" and it does not really help matters much. Remove the feelings and you usually end up with the truth.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
truthteller
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Not Inadvertant but perhaps more jaded.

If things were completely cut and dried there would be no reason not to state the full facts. Not doing so, often, belies as deep seated 'knowing' that things may not be so clear. Its like when someone wants to take a trick they saw another performer do. Instead of asking that performer what it was or where they can learn it, they ask a bunch of people online. They also get very upset when you suggest that asking the initial performer might be the more ethical and productive path. Deep at heart , I feel, they know (or feel) what they are doing is (or may be) wrong. Else, why not ask the original performer?

If you knew someone was taking advantage of you, why not go public with all the details? The only thing served by the original post is to allow rumors to fly when the other magician make his claim known. (hey, I heard HE took the idea from so and so). Smart play I suppose.

Not saying this is what is happening. But I am saying, this is NOT the way to get issues like this resolved.
Nick Sand
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Thank you all for your input, it is appreciated.
I have been very over taken my emotions with this issue.
Its time for me to step back for a while and calm down.
The world we live in is even a greater illusion than magic.
truthteller
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Quite the contrary. If you have a legitimate beef (and you might) there is nothing wrong with getting the facts out in the open. Yes, you want to present those facts clearly and as objectively as possible - but no one deserves to be blackmailed.

Good luck working everything out.
Nick Sand
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Part of the reason I was vague before was because I was in the dark. Given the old song and dance so to speak. Which let me to question the validity of the claim.
I have been show the evidence I had previously asked for and the party will be credited as they deserve.
The world we live in is even a greater illusion than magic.
Dannydoyle
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I am glad to see you step up like this. Congradulations. Emotion is a tough way to deceide "ethics" and such.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Nick Sand
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Just this morning a terrible truth has been found out at this point I have no other choice than to public showing all documents concerning this.
Once I find the proper place to display this it will be done.

This is the low down, My partner and I brought our project to a company we felt would benefit the project. We all work for months toward a common goal. Then this company came back to us saying someone else had released something similar. My partner under the thought that this person would have to be paid. Droped out of the project so that I could continue the project with the other company. Then we find out that no money will be paid to him, he just wanted created. Also the previous marketing package would be changed. Which took away the whole reason we went with them. This whole thing didn't settle well with me. So I went back to my partner to get him to come back to the table. We ask for evidence of prior art, we finally got it after a short dance around. Then we are told that the creator of prior art does not on the rights to the IP anymore. I thought fine I will proceed to contact the IP owner and try to make a deal. I then this morning find out that it was one big lie.
The creator basically told me he still owns is IP and that if I am not willing to release with wizard then they will release his.

I also would like to state once again that I developed my design on my own as did he.

Quote:
On 2011-02-03 09:29, Nick Sand wrote:
Just this morning a terrible truth has been found out at this point I have no other choice than to public showing all documents concerning this.
Once I find the proper place to display this it will be done.

This is the low down, My partner and I brought our project to a company we felt would benefit the project. We all work for months toward a common goal. Then this company came back to us saying someone else had released something similar. My partner under the thought that this person would have to be paid. Droped out of the project so that I could continue the project with the other company. Then we find out that no money will be paid to him, he just wanted credit. Also the previous marketing package would be changed. Which took away the whole reason we went with them. This whole thing didn't settle well with me. So I went back to my partner to get him to come back to the table. We ask for evidence of prior art, we finally got it after a short dance around. Then we are told that the creator of prior art does not on the rights to the IP anymore. I thought fine I will proceed to contact the IP owner and try to make a deal. I then this morning find out that it was one big lie.
The creator basically told me he still owns is IP and that if I am not willing to release with wizard then they will release his.

I also would like to state once again that I developed my design on my own as did he.


The following below is the above quoted with corrections.

Posted: Feb 3, 2011 11:45am
I have gotten this situation wrong. I apologize to all parties envolved.
Case closed complete misunderstanding on my part.
The world we live in is even a greater illusion than magic.
Dannydoyle
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Well that clears things right up.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mr. Mystoffelees
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I haven't changed anyone's opinion in
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Good to see a stand-up guy now and again...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Whit Haydn
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Maybe you should have gone public with this after checking with your colleagues and competitor. This whole thing sounds like it was handled unprofessionally.
Nick Sand
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I asure you every thing was being handled professionally.
It was my emotions confusing the matter. This is my fault and a terrible misunderstanding on my part.
The world we live in is even a greater illusion than magic.
magic4545
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Not a lot of guys have the character to admit that they might not have been correct.

Points for Nick.

There's just too much material out there to research everything. And I've known a lot of guys who claimed something has been stolen, only to see that there were more differences in the pieces than similarities. Case by case basis, always.

With the very little money that is made off of magic, it seems to usually be more of a respect thing.
kal
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I just want to say how impressed I am with Mr Sand for his handling of the situation, his honesty once the complete facts were known.

And while this is a thorny issue with magic I also agree it is often times more of a respect issue than anything else. We're not producing microchips or anything of that value!
I'm always honest about when I'm lying. And I'm always lying...
Dannydoyle
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Ummm what "thorny issue" are we talking about? Still nobody knows LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
jdmagic357
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Nothing sells like a good controversy. Smile
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
Reuben Dunn
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Of course the way to put this behind us might be for Mr Sand to have his comments pulled from the thread, effectively closing it down.
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


www.reubendunn.com
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