I have a quick question for plastic players:
I recently bought Dal Negros plastic playing card and as soon as I dealt seconds, it made a really noisy sound. So, can you deal proper seconds with plastic cards ? I tried both push-offs and strikes and the difference wasn't big to be honest...

I invested a lot of time into plastics and I have discovered that the condition of the cards determined the effectiveness of the move. I know that plastic cards tend to stay constant in flexibility, however they can stick together if they have been used for multiple poker games. Thus, I would not make a move such as a false deal when using plastics because how inconsistent they are.

The noise is related with how tight you hold the top card. With practice and experience you'll use a less firm grip. There is also the possibility trying to do the same noise dealing tops or seconds. Just press down the top card a bit more than usual when you deal it.

But frankly, I deal seconds for ages and the noise has never been a problem. Unless you're playing cards in a church there is always enough "noise" around to prevent people to hear the sound discrepancy.

Yeah, what Arnold said. Be gentle with the cards, and if that's not enough, modify the normal deal to put a bit more pressure. It's fun to do, but it's not all that critical.

...but do you use plastic bridge-sized cards? I wasn't sure from your response.

Plastic yes, but poker-sized ones.

I used these exclusively for several years while working in a bar. The best suggestion is to think dealing down rather than out. The downward motion of the card creates a nearly identical swish, which will never be eliminated entirely. Imagine that you are dealing the card through the deck to the table.

I found out that plastic cards are much easier to handle for second deals - they are "smoother", if I can use that word...

Just like what arnold sugested somewhat works for me... make the normal deal more noisy and lighten up on the seconds until you get the sound the same... I don't think you would have this problem at a noisy venue and depending on how many seconds you have to do...

I know AMcD deals only PUSHOFF seconds but do you guys do strikes too?
Do the same tips apply for strikes?
I am having a real hard with plastic cards.
Maybe there too smooth and I will just keep on practising but it's funny how changing the cards can sometimes change alot.
As for the initial tip about making the same noises with your firsts than with your seconds, well that tip works for every area of the deal.

Slim

I can't get my pushoff to work with kem cards, so I do strikes when I'm using those. It can look kind of hinky if you go over board, but if you give the deck a good squeeze at the corners to buckle the top cards, that can let a little air in between the cards which seems to help with the sound a little bit. But I think Arnold is right and any time that counts there's enough ambient noise that the sound tell is pretty hard to pick up even if you have dog ears and you're listening for it.

I don't understand why you care that much about noise with seconds. Here's a quick video where every 4th card is a second (with a deck of Kem); Do you really think that in an environment where people are talking, playing with chips, sometimes even drinking or eating, someone is gonna hear the difference?

http://www.arnoldmcdonald.org/code/main.php?p=6200000

Very good indeed Arnold. I can't do them sort of seconds myself.

I'm gonna be honest. I can deal seconds with every brand of plastic cards I have found so far (I'd say probably 20 different brands), ranging from smelly crappy £1 (!) Chinese manufactured decks to very nice (IMHO) Modiano or Fournier. But Kems are not my favorite cards at all! The quality varies too much and they don't last that much. But the most important point is that they're not that easy to second deal...

With some brands I would say that second dealing is as easy as a faro with a Richard Turner deck. But with Kems, well, it requires more work. Again, it's just my own advice. Maybe it's easier to do strike seconds with them?

AMcD your second deal is excellent, I couldn't do it any better but I see a video taking problem here. The angle in which you did this video should have been done two different ways. Why? The way you're doing it now indicates that you're a some kind of magician. You're trying to impress your audience of how small your brief is which is great but hustlers never let this angle be seen in a game when doing seconds. Why? This looking down angle is the only angle that is detrimental to a hustler and never should be viewed by any one standing over you.

Readers don't get the wrong impression that I'm talking bad about AMcD's second deal because I'm not. What he fails to tell you because he doesn't know or from inexperience is that the thumb eventually gets tired over a nights period of dealing and the brief becomes off centered or sloppy (especially when you're dealing the bump/peg), this is why the swing/neck tie technique is absolutely necessary of which I'm not seeing him do to the degree that I would like because the angle of which he filmed this footage was wrong. This is talked about in Walter Scott's "The New Phantoms of the Card Table" book by Gazzo. You eventually have to change grips so that your hand can get readjusted to another feel and then go back to your main dealing style.

Another thing I did not see in the footage is you taking regular cards and then seconds. Why is this necessary? To see if the taking fingers changes position or not upon dealing regular and then a second. The way you're dealing your perfect seconds with your thumb in the way makes it appear that there is no room for your thumb and first finger (of the other hand) to take the top card regularly.

Bottom Line: Change your camcorder angle to a level position of where the people at the table will be seeing it and I probably from that view wouldn't have any thing to talk about.

Am I being too harsh? No. Why? I got busted dealing seconds recently because of me not practicing all the time like I used to because I was sick. I forgot all of these little non essentials things that's so important when dealing that I could've gotten myself killed.

Regarding Your Peeks

Some of your peeks are okay but over all I don't really care for most of them. Why? I believe but don't quote me on this that you're going through a stage in your life that I went through just learning move after move because some so-called expert wrote it in a book or showed you in a video. You accept without thinking or questioning yourself are there better moves that exist? If you sit yourself down and analyze every movement that everyone does at your card game and then adjust your cheating style accordingly, that's the day when you invent the move that will get the money; this is why I invented My Infinity Pass because the table pass just didn't sit right with me with the flashing of the deck coming back together. Dai Vernon did this as well with all of the moves that he learned this is why he is was called the Professor. There are better peeks out there than the ones that you're doing in your video but you just haven't seen them yet; I know because I seen them.

Keep up the good work, the moves that you're doing in that video are your stepping stones to the elite moves that you will learn or come across in the near future.


Respectfully,

Doc

Doc,

1 - It's a quick demo done for the guy above, thinking too much about the noise. I just shot quickly a run of deals to show him there's not much difference between a top deal and a second deal in term of noise. Indeed, I didn't pay attention about the angles...

"Another thing I did not see in the footage is you taking regular cards and then seconds.".

2 - I must have a wonderful second deal because you didn't see that I'm dealing 3 tops then 1 second, 3 tops then 1 second... They are not consecutive seconds! Watch again .

3 - I'll shoot my "real" second deal for you in the next days.

PS: About the peeks. You're absolutely right.

That was great and I stand corrected. Note that I did write that they were perfect seconds and if you did take regular cards then you have no problem in your deal just change the angle of your footage showing the top and a level view.

Take care. Good talking to you.

P.S. if possible I need your permission to see your other videos specifically culling on the fly and the N-Stripper footage since I'm just coming back on the scene I need to catch up on some things.

Your Friend

Doc

You should have mail ;-).

Great demo of 2nds friend!

Really good seconds but... they look like strikes to me. I know you once preached against the strike because the lack of "positive illusion", but, and maybe it's just the angle, I can't see a positive illusion from your push offs here...

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing: those seconds would fly and I'm sure you're a way better number 2 than I am.