I thought he painted with hands, sculpted with his toes and wrote poetry with pen in mouth?? All at the same time!

What if you flip the question on it's head and ask what couldn't be presented as mentalism?

But you could go to a art exhibit (show) and see those all on display at once

I agree with smileymcsmiley because even though I still do magic, what I love of mentalism is that when you do magic people think things like: "He hid it in his sleeve", even if you didn't. But, when you do mentalism is just you and the spectators’ mind so the reactions of the public are much stronger.

Giovanni.

"For what it's worth.."?

Bob, you must know by now that this list is Priceless. It's a great foundation for anyone who is either beginning, or, like me, who needs a refresher on the foundational essentials of our learning curve.

I'm saying this as I am in the middle of re-reading your "Fundementals: A Guide to Mentalism". I'd highly recommend this book alone as a great reference book.

Thanks, Reuben.

I think that out of everything I've written, "Fundamentals" remains one of my favorites. In it I was able to go into a lot more depth on the reasoning behind the opinions I often express in brief form here. (The effects are pretty good, too, I think)

Best-

Bob

Mr. Cassidy, I agree with Reuben. Wow! I have read through (three times now), and bookmarked your 39 Steps list. What an incredible resource. As I make the transition from magic to mental magic to (hopefully) mentalism, I know I'll be referring to this list often. And the good news is I already have a number of the books on the list!

BTW, thanks for posting the excerpt from "Artful Mentalism" earlier...lots of good things to ponder.

- Bob

I tend to have a problem with purists. The concept that there is only one right way to perform magic or mentalism always rubs me a bit the wrong way. The real "magic" is in how the audience sees our performance and... how we want to present it.

The real aim, I would think, is that the audience must be entertained and enjoy it. Does it really matter if they believe "outside of the show" that we have powers? I mean after an Indiana Jones movie, I don't hate it because H. Ford is not really a globe trotting archeologist. Yet some how mentalists believe that they must always be mind readers, that they are never out of character.

If your aim is to give "readings" after the show then sure..play your part all the time. However, if you are there to entertain..then create a stage persona and enjoy it...but don't become that same character off stage...too many actors have gone a little loony because they cannot detach from their stage persona.

Magic is flash and surprise and always perceived as a puzzle or the presentation of a "trick." No one believes the woman is REALLY cut in two, right?

Mentalism is presentation, interaction and persuasion. The audience knows they will never be called upon to cut a woman in half...but maybe, just maybe, they can do the same with their minds that they have just seen you do.

Magic often is a challenge to the audience "How did I do it?"

Mentalism is a tantalizing proposal: "Maybe he really DID do it. Maybe I can do it too."

David

Generally speaking I agree with you.

But I can't agree that mentalists, in general "believe that they "must always be mind readers." I'm a "mind reader" on stage only. I personally get very annoyed when I'm in the company of someone who insists on being "on" all of the time.

That said, I've never felt that, as a purist, that there's only one "right" way to perform magic or mentalism. My definition of "purism" is consistency of premise, effect and persona. And that's basically what "Fundamentals" is all about.

Good thoughts,

Bob

Bob...I am very happy to agree with your post!!!
Of course...your books are always thought provokers.

Glad you saw that I was responding to your post, Richard. David posted a minute before I did so my answer got jogged away by one.

BTW, David, I completely agree with you!

Best,

Bob

I am by no means an expert in magic or mentalism, but have dabbled with them since I was 13, making it a 36 year hobby. I like to find out first principles and classify things. I started playing around with what type of mental powers could a mentalist have (I have excluded talking to spirits or anything in that vain). I am sure someone is going to say that this has already been talked about but it seems appropriate for this discussion thread. Here are my raw non-expert ideas on classifying mental powers.


1. Telepathy
a. Read a thought
b. Place a thought
c. Influence

2. Precognition (prediction)

3. Retro-Cognition (past event)

4. Clairvoyance (vision)
a. Clairsentience (feeling/touching)
b. Clairaudience (hearing)
c. Clairalience (smelling)
d. Claircognizance (knowing)
e. Clairgustance (tasting)
5. Psychokinesis
a. Telekinesis (movement)
i. Micro
1. Bending
2. Combustion
3. Breaking - Destruction
ii. Macro
1. Move
2. Lift
b. Teleportation (maybe way out in left field)
c. Transmutation (same as above)

6. Body Language - Contact Reading

7. Memory

Is there someone out there that has done something similar in a more professional and thought provoking way? I would really like to take a look at it.

Bob, your stuff is always excellent. It's a thrill for a simple boy from rural Idaho to hear the conversations of experts.

OK I went and found some older threads on this topic and now I am confused. I thought I was interested in Mentalism but maybe I really interested in Mental Magic.

--------------------------------------------------------
On 2007-11-13 18:47, Terry Holley wrote:
T.A. Waters' definitions in the above cited works:

"MENTALISM: Often erroneously classed as a branch of magic, mentalism is a separate performance art; its roots are not in conjuing but (for the most part) in the spiritualistic and psychic demonstrations of the 19th century. It is often confused with MENTAL MAGIC, but the two arts are different in that mentalism seeks to create a dramatic reality of belief in the performer's 'powers,' while mental magic is designed to baffle and mystify the onlooker."

"MENTAL MAGIC: A branch of magic comprising demonstrations of apparent extraordinary or supernatural mental powers - lightning calculation, super-memory, telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, and psychokinesis. Often included in this category are simulations of mediumistic phenomena, such as spirit slate writing or demonstration seances."

Terry
-------------------------------------

I am interested in the effects listed under Mental Magic but I want to present with an air of believability. So am I interested in Mentalism or am I interested in Mental magic? Do the two co-exist in this forum or should there be a separate forum for Mental Magic (or is their a separate forum and I just don't know about it?)

I like Larry Becker's approach - he calls it mental magic.

I have to agree with Eshla on this one....

Cheers.