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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Appeal of the Chop Cup (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Keith Mitchell
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What I have learned in the past few years from observing people perform C&Bs Vs. Chop cup all depends on how good a story teller they are!

I wish I had the ability to tell a good story.
BCS
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Hey Keith… Having read about your hearing issues, maybe you could study pantomime to convey a story or actions. Another thought might be coordinating your routine with a partner who can tell a story along with your Cups.

Every time I watch a C&B video I think of your reaction to it… not being able to hear what is being said… I promise if I ever produce a professional video of a performance that I will add subtitles.

I am glad that you are posting again, take care,
Bruce
Steven Conner
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Quote:
On 2011-02-12 12:42, Bill Palmer wrote:
There is no more wrong with doing Don Alan's routine than there is with doing the Vernon cups and balls routine, the Symphony of the Rings, a routine with a Svengali deck, or anything else that was invented, published, sold or used by any magician who has passed away.

If anyone has such a ridiculous idea, then apply it to music. It would be wrong to play anything by Bach, Chopin, Beethoven, Robert Johnson, Elvis Presley, John Philip Sousa or any other dead composer or artist.

Is the proximity of our art to fantasy causing brain damage in some of our performers?

Inquiring minds want to know.


If I'm not mistaken, if you are playing in a public facility and charge for the show utilizing commercial music, you must pay fees for the use of the music.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
Andrew Zuber
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If that's true then I know about a thousand magicians who are in some serious trouble.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
jazzy snazzy
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Yes, that is true.
ASCAP and BMI have people who regularly visit clubs to be sure that proper royalties are paid.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz
BCS
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They will also go after stores and phone systems that have background music… even playing a radio in the background has consequences. At work we use on our phone systems some horrible contemporary jazz, recorded special for that purpose as to not have royalty issues… most of this music is recorded in Scandinavian countries special for this use and Muzak.

Thanks,
Bruce
bishthemagish
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On 2011-02-19 12:56, Andrew Zuber wrote:
Glenn - about how long is your set? How many routines do you do between the chop and the cups and balls?

Here is my table to table routine I used to do in restaurants.

Chop dice cup - two or three pick a card tricks using the classic force - matrix (cards and coins) then I would close with the cups and balls.

For a formal close up show it went like this - Chop cup - Card routines (5 0r 6 depending on the audience) Matrix - Ring on a stick - shellgame - Gambling expo and my punch deck routine - Three card monte - cups and balls.

If I need to do more time for the formal show I add - professors nightmare - dienamic diamonds and my anvil coins and hat routine.

I hope this helps.

Cheers.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Andrew Zuber
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Thanks for the layout, Glenn! Always nice to see what effects people are doing and how the lay out the show. Much appreciated!
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 06:37, jazzy snazzy wrote:
Yes, that is true.
ASCAP and BMI have people who regularly visit clubs to be sure that proper royalties are paid.

This is generally more often the case with ASCAP. I've been a member of ASCAP since 1996. My dad was a member before that. I remember the night that the ASCAP rep came into the restaurant where I was working and told the manager he would have to pay a fee. The manager asked me "What should I do?"

I said, "Well, you have two choices. You can pay him, and we can do the material the customers want to hear, or you can have us do material that is in the public domain.

He thought ASCAP was something like the Mafia.

Quote:
On 2011-03-02 22:34, Steven Conner wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-02-12 12:42, Bill Palmer wrote:
There is no more wrong with doing Don Alan's routine than there is with doing the Vernon cups and balls routine, the Symphony of the Rings, a routine with a Svengali deck, or anything else that was invented, published, sold or used by any magician who has passed away.

If anyone has such a ridiculous idea, then apply it to music. It would be wrong to play anything by Bach, Chopin, Beethoven, Robert Johnson, Elvis Presley, John Philip Sousa or any other dead composer or artist.

Is the proximity of our art to fantasy causing brain damage in some of our performers?

Inquiring minds want to know.

If I'm not mistaken, if you are playing in a public facility and charge for the show utilizing commercial music, you must pay fees for the use of the music.

It's not that cut and dried. Here's the situation.

If you are performing in a school or church, no performance fee needs to be paid for the music.

If you are performing in a restaurant, a night club or other similar facility where music is normally played, your performance is covered by their license. Example -- bands don't pay a royalty or performance fee for the music they play in night clubs. That's covered by the night club. This has been a long-standing arrangement between the musicians' union and the licensing companies.

The exception comes when you perform at a convention center, trade show facility or other public venue that does NOT have an ASCAP or BMI license.

Usually this is handled by ASCAP.

Quote:
On 2011-03-03 09:59, BCS wrote:
They will also go after stores and phone systems that have background music… even playing a radio in the background has consequences. At work we use on our phone systems some horrible contemporary jazz, recorded special for that purpose as to not have royalty issues… most of this music is recorded in Scandinavian countries special for this use and Muzak.

Thanks,
Bruce

Muzak is not recorded in Scandinavian countries. That's part of an old gag. "What do they call Muzak in Sweden? -- The sound of music."

Muzak is owned by Taft Broadcasting. They pay the licensning fee for the music. It doesn't matter where the music is recorded. It is where it is listened to that is covered by the law.

Taft broadcasts Muzak from a group of special facilities in various cities in the US.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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BCS
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Bill… thanks for clearing that up… I am embarrassed to have believed that story. How old is that joke… did it come out shortly after the play or movie?

Besides Cups, I have learned a lot from you on other things… I get a kick while watching Antiques Road Show when they say something about a banjo… I think what would Bill say regarding this.

Thanks,
Bruce
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 18:02, Andrew Zuber wrote:
Thanks for the layout, Glenn! Always nice to see what effects people are doing and how the lay out the show. Much appreciated!

The show has a basic structure - Chop cup - card effects - matrix then cups and balls. Then I add to it depending on the time I need to do and the venue.

I hope this helps.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
fortasse
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Typically, how long would the whole show last?
bishthemagish
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I do formal close up shows that last 30 minutes - 45 minutes and 60 minutes.

When I performed in the close up gallery at the magic castle they wanted three - twenty minute shows per evening for 7 days.

Often it depends on the gig if it is a privet party - or a venue like a night club or a restaurant. When I performed my hypnotic show at the night club restaurant called Blueberry Hill. I did walk around - a hypnoic show on the stage - and then an after show that was a formal close up show for about 30 minutes.

It depends on the gig.

I hope this helps.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
fortasse
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Sure does. Thanks, Glenn.
bishthemagish
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Your welcome,

This may help as it was suggested to me by Don Alan. He said to me to get a solid short act with a strong beginning - a good middle - and a strong end. Then with that as a basic routine I can add to it if I need to fill in more time.

So my basic sort act became Chop cup a strong short beginning that draws them (the audience in) then a strong middle - card tricks and then matrix - cards and coins to bring them from cards to other props. Then the strong closer the cups and balls with three large loads.

Then if I need to do more time I add tricks like the ring on a stick - DieNamic Diamonds - coins to glass and other routines. And I also can add more card tricks like card to wallet - street swindles - card sharp routines - sponge ball or rope tricks if I need to fill more time.

I look at building an act or a show like stringing a handful of beads. Each trick or routine is a bead and you and your personality is the string. I also like the act to have texture. A strong classic magic trick - comedy and humor - a serious routine that may involve gambling.

I remember reading in the Leipzig book how Nate Leipzig had an act for each different performing situation. A club act for clubs - a vaudeville act - and a set he did as an impromptu performer. I consider this still to this day as great advice.

I hope this helps.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Andrew Zuber
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Excellent thoughts Glenn! I'm always interested in the way a performer sets up a show. It's been nice to hear your take on it.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Pete Biro
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In one of Billy McComb's books, he explains a great system using 3x5 cards. In upper left corner he has a one inch square that he writes the running time of an effect. To the right, name of effect.

I think he notes if it is an opener or closer.

Below, list of all items needed and set up requirements. And he adds Key Patter lines. You can lay these out to build a show of a desired length.

I have used this for years.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2011-03-05 20:37, Andrew Zuber wrote:
Excellent thoughts Glenn! I'm always interested in the way a performer sets up a show. It's been nice to hear your take on it.

Thanks for the kind words.

I also let the audience help in choosing the order of the routine. I can tell by the audience reactions and I often use a strong routine to come after a funny routine that might have a lot of humor.

What has worked for me over the yeas is a set act - then add or take away depending on time. Also add and take away depending on how the venue is set up. I like doing a formal close up show in a drawing (living) room style. Getting two people up to sit down at a card table.

To this I can add some stage magic like - professors nightmare - or the sympathetic silks and even do the linking rings - depending on time and the performing situation. But I always open with the chop dice cup and close with the cups and balls.

I hope this helps.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
fortasse
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Pete/Glenn :

Some great, practical advice you've given there.
bishthemagish
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Your welcome...

Good luck!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
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