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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts 
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Given that you're a good performer and all else equal...
Does danger (real or perceived) really add to the excitement? Example, blindfolded then figuring what an item is in the hand of spec or Osterlind's Acid Test where avoiding drinking the "acid" is imperative? Of course both have to be done well... Are they equal? Or... Does the danger really add that "edge"?
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts
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I know that there will be no shortage of folks who will disagree, but IMO "danger" routines (e.g. spiker, acid test, Russian roulette) diminish rather than enhance one's performance. I believe that it is essential that a performance of mentalism MUST be credible -- not that the audience must necessarily believe that what the performer does is real, but that the majority of observers be willing to entertain the thought that it MIGHT be. What rational observer will seriously believe that a performer, no matter how much they are being paid, would risk death or serious injury for the "entertainment" of others? Would one even consider watching someone kill or injure themselves "entertaining?" I think not, therefor -- assuming that the performer is not harmed -- the only possible explanation is that the "risk" is only illusory; i.e., it is simply a clever trick. IMO that is the LAST impression a mentalist wants to create. In the event that the performer IS harmed (as so many have been in the case of the "spiker" effects) the perception is that the performer is either an idiot or at least inept -- not the impression one wants to create either.
That is NOT to say that such effects are not exciting, just that they strain credibility beyond the breaking point. For those who will take issue with my comments -- you are certainly entitled to your opinions. Just don't expect me to change mine.
Dick Christian
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gh256 Loyal user 251 Posts
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I generally find the routines with spike unconformable to watch, even though I know how they work it is just the idea if something did go wrong. So I tend not to watch them, however I do like the idea of Luke Jermay's Dangerous Opener where the audience does not know what is really happening until the end where the knife/spike is revealed.
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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In my opinion, no. Back in the 70s, the answer would have been yes. In fact at that time it was an element of many "mystery entertainment" shows, so many that it was ever escalating to a point of unbelieveability. In my opinion, most performances are looked on as such, performances. A 'fake mindreader' adding 'fake danger' to his 'fake demonstration', er, I mean show. For most, thinking otherwise may only be fooling one's self.
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Santiago New user Argentina 75 Posts
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I think it depends on the audience you are performing for. For example, if you perform some kind of Russian Roulette for a group of teenagers you'll blow their minds away, at least here where I live.
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David Numen Inner circle 2077 Posts
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A couple of things that many who take the danger path don't seem to realise:
If you are doing Russian Roullette or any effect where your life is in danger then surely, for the sake of credibility, you should be at a venue or a performance where the risks are WORTH taking. Derren Brown doing a "psychological experiment" on TV is miles away from a stand up show in a Church Hall. Also, if you are going to risk your life then make sure your audience give a ***! If your audience haven't learnt to like and, to an extent, trust you then they are very unlikely to engage in the performance. |
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Stephen Young Inner circle Thought Illusions 3933 Posts
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I also like the idea of Luke Jermays' Dangerous Opener.
And my routine for The Pain Game (once it's ready) will not reveal the contents of the bags until the end. Steve |
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Santiago New user Argentina 75 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-11 09:15, steveline wrote: I like the idea of revealing the danger at the end, because it doesn't make the audience feel like gh256 has described and because I think it's a bigger surprise. |
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ted french Inner circle Columbus Ohio 1946 Posts
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Yes it does. On occasion I will randomly pull an audience member up on stage and challenge them to a fight, Andy Kaufman style.
P3
practice practice perform. |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts
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I think 'Danger' or it to put correctly the fear or delight that that induces in the audience is just another emotion like humour, wonder, confusion. For and all round act, it's my opinion that a bit of every emotion makes for a good show.
Having too much of just one type of emotion (film makers have known for decades) just doesn't work. you can't keep any one emotion doing for the whole duration and seriousness needs light relief and vise verser. Even in the middle of your 'spike' routine you can inject some humour to break it up a bit, then back to serious. People who wouldn't normally watch serious stuff and would be bored by it can be won over with humour first then into something serious but nothing for too long, taking into mind the attention span of the audience. The one thing I do in my act when adding or subtracting a routine is to work out how it fits with the routines around it and if I have too much of one type of emotion for too long.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts
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IMO it doesn't matter whether the "spike" is revealed before or after the effect is concluded -- any shred of credibility is lost either way.
Dick Christian
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts
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It also has to be remembered even by us that many a 'spike routine' has in fact gone wrong.
It may be their own silly fault, but that's hardly the point. Certainly if you have lost track of your safety checks, then no good can come of carrying on. So dangerous tricks can in fact sometimes be dangerous! I've even had audience members say to me that they have seen the youtube clips of when it has gone wrong and that's great as it instills in there mind that it can go wrong. Not that it would with me as I have more than a couple of safety checks in place and if I'm not 150% sure then I WILL STOP. (Plenty of other things I can show them)
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Wravyn Inner circle 3513 Posts
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Houdini did many an escape that was dangerous. He held his audiences attention. People were different then. Violence was not being fed to them through video games, the news, etc. 7-24; which we have grown to become indifferent and callous to such scenes. If he had todays audiences, how many would be upset that he was successful? How many would go with hopes of him effing up and getting injured or die?
If one takes a look at todays society with the graphic scenes in todays horror/gore movies, real time movies like "Faces of Death', cage fighting, etc. How many times did the news show the beheading of someone in the middle east? And how many times did we sit with rapt attention watching it? It seems like todays audiences would be pleased to see effects like 'Spike' or 'Russian Roullette', but are they dissapointed that there is no pain, no blood, no gore? I know that routines like that are not for me so I know that my audiences would not be excited if I did them. |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-11 09:36, Shrubsole wrote: Thanks Shrubsole... As an Actor, I get that point very well. 
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts
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It's a difficult question because it's going to be dependent on your character and the context of the presentation...along with the audience.
Personally, I don't much care for "danger" effects. They inspire the 'train wreck' mentality. You know it's an trick and the guy is probably going to survive unscathed...and the only thing to keep you watching is wondering if he's going to mess it up or not. I don't like them because the presentation so often focuses on the effect instead of the performer or presentation. Having said that, I've seen Osterlind's Russian Roulette and a few of the escape artists doing potentially dangerous things. While the are all well executed, they leave me considerably less interested than a solid effect with a surprise ending. I guess that's the other thing about danger effects: other than relief of the performer and the audience...there's no surprise. It turns out exactly as you'd hoped it would. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts
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The only rule is there are no rules , what works for one performer will fail miserably for another.
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-11 11:30, tboehnlein wrote: I agree wholeheartedly. Just wanted to know what others think about the issue. 
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-11 11:04, Pakar Ilusi wrote: Are we not all actors? I know that I'm using a 'method' but have to look like I'm doing something else. That would be acting!
We even refer to them as our ACTS!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts
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Too true. We're all Actors here.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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magic4545 Inner circle Jimmy Fingers 1159 Posts
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Every show producer, booker and agent requests Slamdown quite often, especially, after seeing the show live.
It fits me, it might not fit some others. Dick, you and I seem to disagree on just about everything, LOL!!! But, I bet that we would get along fine if we ever meet. Jimmy |
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Posted: Feb 11, 2011 01:10 pm 
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