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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » L&L Publishing (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TopChange
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Connecticut
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Is L&L turning into another A 1 Video. They are not coming out with hardly any new products and are giving away to much
stuff with purchases. Seems to me they are having some financial problems. Any comments...
Robert M
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Geez, I hope not.

I can't help but wonder if magicians sharing and copying DVDs has ruined L&L's business?

If so, that sucks.

Robert
silverking
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Magicians are becoming demanding in terms of quality and cost.

Perhaps taking 9 magic tricks, splitting them up into three DVD's costing $39.95 a piece, with each DVD having only three tricks on it (a half an hour worth of actual video) is something that folks got hip to, and are starting to reject.

Even harder to accept when only 2 of those 9 tricks are what one could consider "Outstanding", and the rest somewhere from Fair to Good.

Perhaps folks in tough economic times are seeking value.

There are others in magic marketing that are far worse than L&L with overpriced hype (in fact L&L might not even be in the top 10)...........but in many areas of magic marketing the financial tough times have forced users to be critical of what they purchase.

The good news is that there's always a company (or companies) waiting in the wings who will recognize the demands of the marketplace, and will offer fantastic value and amazing quality in order to steal away business from those who hang on to a dead business model for too long.
rklew64
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Does seem like a possible wake up call for them. They do need to move away from looking like clip art. I mean look at the production values for Alakazam, Big Blind, etc. Even instant downloads have updated production. well just my opinion.
motown
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Silverking,

Before I respond to what you wrote, are you saying L&L takes nine tricks and spreads them out over 3 DVDs and charges $40? If you are, please site some examples. And are you saying they go overboard in hyping their products? Again site some examples.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
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silverking
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Motown, I made a point of saying that L&L may not even be in the "top ten" in terms of companies offering poor value.
As a result of that statement, there's no point in my seeming to defend a statement I didn't make.

However............

Bob Sheets "Hospitality" is a three volume set, with three tricks on each disc, for $29.95 each......that's $90.00 all in (Not all the tricks are keepers......and that's being polite.)
There are lots more examples on their web site.

There are many one-trick discs out there going for $39.95, and NONE of those discs come from L&L.........those would be examples of companies in the "top ten".

Although L&L certainly offers value in some of it's releases, I find those are more a result of the magician on the disc as opposed to anything L&L has packaged.

Frankly, I don't find value is found in marketed magic outside of books these days........L&L is simply included in that thought.
In many ways, DVD's have always represented poor value in magic when compared to a book with 20, 30, or 50 tricks in it.

I've got a bunch of L&L discs in my library, most of which I purchased for a single, "brilliant" effect, so I'm quite guilty of supporting the marketing model I'm putting down.
seneca77
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I'm curious as to how I got on their mailing list. I've never bought anything from L&L but every couple days I get another e-mail from them. That alone doesn't endear me to them.

- Bob
Nerdini
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The Bob Sheets hospitality DVD's are not L & L products. They were put out by Bob Kohler. I know because I bought all three at a Bob Sheets lecture.

If they are on the L&L's site then they are just retailing them as any magic dealer might. L&L stocks and sells some items that they did not produce or publish.

Fortunately I only paid about $50 for the set, but I agree they are a bit over priced for what one gets. Heck, the first trick on volume one is nothing but the standard sponge bunnies. Now, Bob is a funny guy, but not that funny.

Cheers
"I was in love with a beautiful blonde once. She drove me to drink; that's the one thing I'm indebted to her for"
motown
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Quote:
On 2011-02-19 23:17, seneca77 wrote:
I'm curious as to how I got on their mailing list. I've never bought anything from L&L but every couple days I get another e-mail from them. That alone doesn't endear me to them.

- Bob
Bob, if you don't want to be on their email list, just scroll to the bottom of the message. You should find a place to select being taken of their list.

Silverking,

there you go, you picked one example that isn't even an L&L production.

Go figure.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain
Turk
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TopChange originally asked:

"Is L&L turning into another A 1 Video. They are not coming out with hardly any new products and are giving away to much stuff with purchases. Seems to me they are having some financial problems. Any comments... "

As food for thought, pure speculation and IMHO, I proffer the following: (Your mileage may vary...and probably does) (grin)

1. With the "Fire Sale" on some recent video sales ("Buy one set for $99.00 and we will throw in two 4-volume sets (worth $240.00"), I'm wondering if L&L might be in the process of changing business models and, as such, are getting rid of "old" (soon to be obsolete) stock. What new business model you might ask? I'm thinking about perhaps streaming video. Not anything that I would buy but, if it works for NetFlix, perhaps Louis might be thinking that that might be the wave of the future. I sincerely hope not. Alternatively, perhaps, Louis is trying to get rid of old stock and will then only be releasing future videos in HD Blu-Ray format.

2. Additionally, I seem to recall that, in answer to an often asked question ("When is your next DVD set going to come out"), a number of magicians have sporadically commented that they did a shoot for L&L (ages ago) and that they were still waiting for L&L to release it. As such, I'm wondering if L&L might have finally run out of finished video shoots that are "in the can" and are now having difficulty coordinating their schedules with the schedules of the working pros whose videos they would next like to shoot. Or, perhaps it is as simple as L&L and the subject magician cannot agree on a price for the magician to do the next three-day shoot, etc.

3. Alternatively, the answer might be as simple as maybe people are getting tired of instructional videos and L&L is having to reduce the prices to keep a required cash flow flowing.

I know that I had been on a huge instructional video kick for the last 5-6 years and have many video DVD sets on my library shelves. But recently, I have re-discovered the pleasures of holding a hardbound printed book in my hot little hands and lovingly sitting there dreaming and contemplating effects and presentations as I read and slowly contemplate upon the points I am reading in the book. And then, when I'm ready, moving onto the next paragraph, etc. I just cannot do that with a video.

Don't get me wrong, I still like instructional videos--especially for being able to watch sleight of hand and misdirection techniques being demonstrated before live audiences. But, the pleasure and functionality of "the book" is luring me back.

So, back to the question in the original post, perhaps people are becoming satiated with instructional videos...and L&L just happens to be caught in that wave.

As I say, all the foregoing is just idle speculation...on a quiet late Saturday evening. It would probably be pure coincidence if any of the reasons offered even approached the actual reasons for L&L's frequent "Fire Sales" and their seemingly reduced release schedule.

Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Jean-Luc.R.
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L&L is doing the things the old way.

You like it or not.

But the business has changed and not them.

Hope it is not too late!

Look at Big Blind Media ,Papercrane or RSVP .
TopChange
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Thanks for all the replies. I just recieved bad news that my local magic shop is closing down. I have been going there on and off for over 25 years. In the begining I was buying a book just about every month. Yes, I have a killer library that I am proud of.

Then VHS came out. Remember paying 75 dollars for a Stevens Magic video. Those were the days. Now DVD is big, but the
internet is now killing all the shops.

Please don't get me wrong. When I first became a magician, I swore to keep magic a secret. Now everything can be revealed on the internet. It is not right and somehow it has to be stopped. Its OK to help someone out. But on the internet a person can get info in minutes, were it took me hours or even days of research to get an answer.

One last comment. Seems like NOBODY credits anybody for a move these days. Seems like Michael Ammar invented it all. What I think we should do is have more members of the IBM and SAM. To become a true member you need to put on a perfomance and be judged to be allowed in.

Come on guys, if you truely love this craft. Lets do something to keep it strong.

TopChange
Cameron Francis
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I didn't think L&L were slowing down. They just released the Darwin Ortiz dvds and the Maven dvd before that. How are they slowing down?
Steven Leung
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When L&L has crazy sale even cheaper than the wholesale price in Murphy's Magic, how can brick and mortar magic shop sustain internet magic shopping?

Even these magic shop sells books, props, and provide professional consultation and advice to beginners and working pro. Chances are slim for them to beat the house in the long run.

It is definitely a lose-lose situation. I am not even mentioned those poor value DVDs / Props flooded the market, P2P BT illegal sharing, poor magic performers on TV / live shows, declining number of members in magic societies due to citizen's aging problems, kids don't bother to join magic clubs... and the list goes on and on...

What's the future of magic retail business? Only the Almighty knows.

To sum things up, may I say globalization, the advancement of internet changes our behavior in our daily lives, and that includes magic as well.

On the other hand, any changes will lead to new problems + new opportunities.

Just my 2 cents.
Most memorable moment - with Maestro Juan Tamariz & Consuelo Lorgia in FISM Busan 2018.

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TopChange
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Hi Cameron,

Enjoy your magic. The Ortiz videos are basically remakes of previous published work. Before that were the The Malone meets Marlo set. They were put out almost a year ago.

Remember back in the time when books were of value. There would be 2 or 3 of them a month coming out. Then video got popular and they were coming out just as strong. Now L & L is in that boat were nothing is being put out according to my personal view.

Remember A 1 Video. They were strong at the beginning and died at the end. I remember hearing somewhere Mike Maxwell had a spending problem that contributed to the closure to his company.
Topchange
Dr. Magic
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Steven Magic was THE leader in videos of NAME Magicians....then they blinked and A-1 became the leader ( actually L&L and A-1 were partners. L&L would do print ( books ) and A-1 videos ). But....they had a falling out and L&L came THE big dog.

Now, like in the adult film genre in the late 80's, individual producers have taken over ( because of easy access to video technology ).
Cameron Francis
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TopChange, thank you for the compliment.

Actually the Max Maven Multiplicity video came out a few months ago. Before that the Barrie Richardson dvds and there was another set before that. Malone Meets Marlo set was put out more than a year ago. More like two years ago and there have been several dvds since then.

Not to mention all the World's Greatest Magic stuff and the Cervon Castle Notebooks.

All I'm saying is that L&L hasn't really slowed down.
Russell Davidson
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Not sure what L&L are doing now but their World's Greatest Magic series has got to be some of the best value DVD's I've ever bought. For that I am eternally grateful.

Considering the one trick DVD's that are the norm these days, L&L for me have always given good value for money.
Domino Magic
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Here's a run down of the L&L releases since January 2010:

Michael Close - Devious - 1/2010
The Complete Ganson Teach-In Series by Lewis Ganson - 4/2010
The Magic & Mentalism of Barrie Richardson - 5/2010
The Last Word on Three Card Monte - 7/2010
Max Maven – Multiplicity - 10/2010
Darwin Ortiz – Nothing But The Best - 1/2011
Bruce Cervon’s Castle Notebooks – Volumes 2, 3, 4, and 5 - 1/2011

That's 6 new releases and one re-release (Cervon) in a year. Based on the above information, they've been putting out a new release every three months and then some. How much more do you want?

They probably released more in the past, but the reality of the marketplace today and the economy tells you that L&L is just being smart by not flooding the market, as the market is already flooded. It doesn't benefit anyone to do that.

And don't discount Darwin Ortiz's release. If you have doubts about the content, then read what Darwin says about it:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=6926259
ted french
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They haven't had a huge success is probably what the OP meant. Who knows they may have they may not have, bottom line is that if you buy an L&L you know it will be of an excellent quality.
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