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Woland
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Well, Magnus, obviously the ONLY nominee MUST have been the darling of the international community at the UN.

Q.E.D.


W.
Pakar Ilusi
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On 2011-03-03 12:58, Woland wrote:
Well, Magnus, obviously the ONLY nominee MUST have been the darling of the international community at the UN.

Q.E.D.


W.


Much good it's doing them now. Smile
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
Woland
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People are so fickle . . . .

There are some thoughts about Libya's erstwhile foreign friends (The Top Ten Toads) from Walter Russell Mead of Bard College here. It is really too long and too good to excerpt. There are some pictures of Qadhdhafi in his motley regalias, with Hugo Chavez, Nicolas Sarkozy, Gordon Brown, and Tony Blair.

Here is a sample:

Quote:
Anybody can suck up to a bloodspattered, psychotic dictator for money. This is presumably what happened to the clueless (and in many cases poor) traditional tribal rulers and elders of Africa who, presumably in exchange for oil money stolen from the Libyan people, pretended to confer the meaningless title of Africa’s “King of Kings” on the Exalted Loon.

But it takes a special kind of ugly to betray human rights on the scale of the UN’s infamous “Human Rights Commission,” a body whose members not only refused to resign en masse rather than see Libya seated on it, they went on to elect (by secret ballot, to protect the abjectly depraved from the just contempt of the civilized world) a representative of Gaddafi’s Libya to the chairmanship of this self-parodying collection of imbeciles and lickspittles.

It was not enough to elevate a representative of one of the world’s most repressive regimes to this position of honor; the preposterously misnamed “Human Rights Commission” went on to ban an actual and authentic human rights group from its meetings (Reporters Without Borders) for daring to criticize this decision.

Said Reporters Without Borders about the Gaddafi henchwoman Najat al-Hajjajia selected to lead the UNHRC: “Censorship, arbitrary detention, jailings, disappearances, torture; at last the UN has appointed someone who knows what she’s talking about.”

To the everlasting shame of all concerned, there was no mass resignation of countries from this panel in protest of these monstrosities; a special dishonorable mention goes to the professional staff of this organization who held their noses and cashed their checks even as a human rights organization was set in the service of evil and oppression.


Woland
Magnus Eisengrim
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This is fine, Woland. But again, it's irrelevant to your claim that "up until a few weeks ago, the Libyan regime was the darling of the international community."

Perhaps you'd like to amend it to "a handful of Westerners were deceived, bought out or were just plain foolish enough to support a handful of Libyan thugs". I'd agree with that. Heck an even bigger handful of Westerners were and are prepared to ignore human rights abuses if there's a buck to be made.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Woland
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The presiding officials of the UN and all of the UN ambassadors, their superiors in their home governments, and so on, are hardly a handful of Westerners. The prime ministers of the UK, of Italy, France, and other world leaders are hardly a handful of Westerners.

Woland
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 15:32, Woland wrote:
The presiding officials of the UN and all of the UN ambassadors, their superiors in their home governments, and so on, are hardly a handful of Westerners. The prime ministers of the UK, of Italy, France, and other world leaders are hardly a handful of Westerners.

Woland


What words or actions of these people indicate that ""up until a few weeks ago, the Libyan regime was the darling of the international community."

Seriously. Do you you have quotations? Actions? Votes you can attribute to any of these officials?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Woland
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Did you read W.R. Mead's complete article?

A few examples:

Quote:
Blair went a lot farther than that; Baroness Symons, his special representative to the Middle East, made the gratuitously disgusting comment that Libya’s people “recognised and valued” Gaddafi’s regime.


Quote:
In 2008 Berlusconi pledged $5 billion in “reparations” for Italy’s sins while it kept Libya under colonial rule for much of the 20th century; the next year he sent the Italian air force to put on a special show for Gaddafi’s birthday.


Quote:
“Written off not long ago as an implacable despot, Gaddafi is a complex and adaptive thinker as well as an efficient, if laid-back, autocrat. Unlike almost any other Arab ruler, he has exhibited an extraordinary capacity to rethink his country’s role in a changed and changing world.“ (Benjamin Barber)


Quote:
"First, although Libya is far from a democracy, it also doesn't feel like other police states that I have visited. I caught no whiff of an omnipresent security service -- which is not to say that they aren't there -- and there were fewer police or military personnel on the streets than one saw in Franco's Spain. The Libyans with whom I spoke were open and candid and gave no sign of being worried about being overheard or reported or anything like that." (Stephen Walt)


Of course this sort of thing, particularly from the academy is nothing new. We got the same sort of tripe about the CCCP from Lincoln Steffens and the Webbs, for example.

Woland
MagicSanta
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John, I checked and there is no one from the International Community who has used the words 'darling' to describe anything. The fact is when Guadaffi acted like he was open to the West the West generally welcomed him with open arms. So Woland is correct in that relative to his stand a few years ago he became the darling of the int'l community as that is a term used for something like that. It is as if someone was called 'the toast of the town', it doesn't mean that a photo exist of a now brown and crusty person popping out of a table top appliance.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Well, I'm not going to waste much more time over this. If you dig long enough--as Woland undoubtedly has--you can find comments like the ones above. Not one of them praised the Libyan state as the original quotation suggested. Instead we get a comment that Libyans value the regime, reparation payments over actions taken long before Gaddafi seized power, comments that Gaddafi is intelligent, and that as police states go, there are far worse.

How any of these add up to "up until a few weeks ago, the Libyan regime was the darling of the international community" is beyond me.

Santa, maybe you and Woland have very low standards for "darling" and "toast of the town". The claim that I responded to suggested that "the international community"--whatever that is--thought very highly of Gadaffi's regime. Sorry, nothing posted to support this proposition goes any further than "things could be more repugnant, I suppose..."

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Woland
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Well, Magnus, at least you wouldn't find Stephen Harper in that crowd, and I say "Thanks, Canada!" for that, too.
MagicSanta
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I doubt they found his regime to be wonderful but they certainly were making an effort to make him feel at home with, the hope I think, of bringing about change when he saw the awards that could be had for playing ball. He didn't see it though and realized he needed a firm grip to keep control.
Magnus Eisengrim
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On 2011-03-03 17:18, MagicSanta wrote:
I doubt they found his regime to be wonderful but they certainly were making an effort to make him feel at home with, the hope I think, of bringing about change when he saw the awards that could be had for playing ball. He didn't see it though and realized he needed a firm grip to keep control.


I agree with you.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
MagicSanta
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I figured you would. I hope they toss Guadaffi's arse out and they get their oil flowing and actually use it for some good for the people but I doubt it. Someone else will step in and start his forty years.
spatlind
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http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/com......654.html

Last two paragraphs are interesting
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright.
Destiny
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Is there one single person here who ever entertained a single doubt, for even a moment, that Ghaddafi was behind the Lockerbie bombing?

The fact that governments and international organisations could turn a blind eye to that, shows the problems in international diplomacy.

Even if it's deemed convenient not to punish such actions, they should not be ignored. The truth should be acknowledged.

There was a lot to be said for the South African Truth and Reconciliation process.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 15:32, Woland wrote:
The presiding officials of the UN and all of the UN ambassadors, their superiors in their home governments, and so on, are hardly a handful of Westerners. The prime ministers of the UK, of Italy, France, and other world leaders are hardly a handful of Westerners.

Woland

I'm confused about your position. Are you saying that Berlusconi and Sarkozy are leftists? And why the conspicuous absence of the US govt on your list?. In 2004 (Bush the Lesser was president then, remember?), the US resumed diplomatic relations with Libya after over 20 years. The US also revoked the status of Libya as a terrorist state and unfroze its assets. In 2006, Libya established an embassy here. And of course substantial more trade was allowed with Libya.

So unless by international darling you mean to include the US as led by Bush, your statement is disinformation, misinformation, or you think Bush is a leftist.

Santa, I'm still not getting clear what your incident was with Vernon's son.
Woland
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In the paragraph you quote above, I don't think I used the term leftist. I was pointing out that the Qadhdhafi regime was treated quite nicely by the UN and by "the international community." But since you brought it up, leftists such as Hugo Chavez also loved Qadhdhafi.

W.
Woland
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Sometimes you do have to go to Canada to get the real news. The Ottawa Citizen reports:

Quote:
The UN Human Rights Council is set to adopt a major report hailing Libya's human rights record -- despite moving to suspend the Arab country's council membership amid an international outcry over attacks on civilians.

The report shows countries applauding and commending Libya as they note "with appreciation the country's commitment to upholding human rights on the ground."

Even Canada "welcomed improvements" Libya made "in its respect for human rights," according to the report, which is scheduled for a vote before the Geneva-based 47-member council March 18. But the Canadian government also made several critically framed recommendations to the Gadhafi regime, including one calling for reinforced measures aimed at fully investigating torture claims.

The 23-page report was compiled as part of the council's "Universal Periodic Review" -- a process the UN bills as a rigorous scrutiny of the human rights records of each UN member state every four years.


You gotta love the UN. Libya -- still the darling of the international community.

Woland
magicfish
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On 2011-03-02 23:32, tommy wrote:
I think China will move puppet government into Libya like they have done in the US and the UK.

who whoa whoa. A little consistency please. I thought you said the US was the almighty Satan. Now it's China? Lol make up your mind, son.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-03-04 10:26, Woland wrote:

In the paragraph you quote above, I don't think I used the term leftist. I was pointing out that the Qadhdhafi regime was treated quite nicely by the UN and by "the international community." But since you brought it up, leftists such as Hugo Chavez also loved Qadhdhafi.

The U.S. companies I mentioned a page or two ago, the ones that have been steadily lobbying for the past 6 or 7 years to do / keep doing business with Qaddafi and Libya, that include,

BP, Occidental, Marathon, ExxonMobil, Shell, ConocoPhillips, Chevron, Caterpillar, Ratheon, Motorola, Dow Chemical, Halliburton,

I have to wonder how many of their fantastically wealthy CEOs are leftists.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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