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Thomas Cooper
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Making sure that a spectator believes you are not using slight of hand is VITAL to me. That's the difference between me and a Magician. A Magician can touch a normal deck of cards and make it turn from a red backed deck into a blue backed deck and then make your name appear on a card and then throw that card to the ceiling where it sticks!
Impressive, and fun to watch. But its not life changing, and that's what I want to be. Occasionally, when I am on my top form, I will have a spectator shiver, back away or stop breathing - that's when you know you are doing it right. I have never seen such reactions from a coin matrix or a card on ceiling.

The more you can make them believe that you are reading their mind, the more you get such reactions. I don't know why; I guess its because people want to believe in the impossible, and with magic we all secretly know its not real; but with mentalism (GOOD mentalism) they can suspend their disbelief if they see something impossible under such impossible conditions. This is why not touching the deck matters - this is why I love my gimmicks.


You must deceive to make them believe, you cannot simply entertain.


Theo
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I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.

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Steven Keyl
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Theo, so it is your belief (and probably the belief of many on this forum) that a magician's performance is trivial and trite. Perhaps entertaining but no more. Whereas a mighty mentalist engages the specatator in a profound experience that a mere magician could never rival.

This is the type of head-in-the-sand argument that makes me smile. I've seen magic so wonderful that it engenders in the audience a true sense of wonder and awe. I've seen mentalism so bad it would make a 4th grader chuckle.

The question isn't magic vs. mentalism. It's about the quality of the performer, the quality of the material, the mindset of the audience, and how can one reach into the mind of the spectator and take them somewhere they didn't think they could go.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

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Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2011-03-13 20:52, Steven Keyl wrote:
Theo, so it is your belief (and probably the belief of many on this forum) that a magician's performance is trivial and trite. Perhaps entertaining but no more. Whereas a mighty mentalist engages the specatator in a profound experience that a mere magician could never rival.

This is the type of head-in-the-sand argument that makes me smile. I've seen magic so wonderful that it engenders in the audience a true sense of wonder and awe. I've seen mentalism so bad it would make a 4th grader chuckle.

But your example does not help pulling the head off the sand.

The real comparison could only be between two very good performances.

If one use the one bad and one good example, the bad one is implicitly always the loser.

It's like a coin flip in which, if heads they win, if tails you're gonna lose.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Sariel
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Quote:
On 2011-03-13 20:52, Steven Keyl wrote:
Theo, so it is your belief (and probably the belief of many on this forum) that a magician's performance is trivial and trite. Perhaps entertaining but no more. Whereas a mighty mentalist engages the specatator in a profound experience that a mere magician could never rival.


I am puzzled then at the majority of magicians wanting to perform more and more mentalism in their acts versus a low ratio of mentalists eager to include some dove vanish or cigarette manipulation in their acts.
Amirá
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My ACAAN inspired from Tommy is this :

I use a variant of his Subtle Scam mixing it with Destiny ,Destiny 2 add a few things from his Magician Dream, using the idea of ACAAN of demand BUT changing the last part for Perfect ACAAN of Demand.
For the first part I use the Mixed Revelation and for the revelation of the number I use Final Cut - ACAAN and for the number Dream - ACAAN .
If that subtle move from Lucifer - ACAAN doesn't work , I use The Eyes of Darkness sleight in conjuction with Beyond Reloaded.




Just a joke . Even if you don't like Tommy´s work you have to admit that this guy rocks in naming tricks.
Pablo
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Steven Keyl
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On 2011-03-13 21:19, Lord Of The Horses wrote:

But your example does not help pulling the head off the sand.
The real comparison could only be between two very good performances.
If one use the one bad and one good example, the bad one is implicitly always the loser.
It's like a coin flip in which, if heads they win, if tails you're gonna lose.


That is exactly my point LOTH. An excellent performance can have a profound impact on a spectator whether it be traditional magic or mentalism.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

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"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
Thomas Cooper
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I will defend my post by pointing out that several Grand Illusion magic routines have made me cry before (Flying, Portal etc) but I have never really believed in them, and I've never seen the stop breathing moment. I think mentalism can have the advantage of believability that magic can never really have. that's the power of a strong mentalist.

Theo
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I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.

Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending?
Amirá
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I don't think that in Mentalism you need to create a suspension of disbelieves,in my opinion that happens in Magic.

In Mentalism you are performing something REAL, so you don't need to suspend his disbelief, rather create awareness in their believes.
Pablo
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entermagic
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Quote:
On 2011-03-14 10:09, Theodore Fraser wrote:
I will defend my post by pointing out that several Grand Illusion magic routines have made me cry before (Flying, Portal etc) but I have never really believed in them, and I've never seen the stop breathing moment. I think mentalism can have the advantage of believability that magic can never really have. that's the power of a strong mentalist.

Theo
xx


...and how you do you link that with ACAAN? Do you have a good method that uses psychological techniques to reach the climax? Well. Here, you have a method that works without any psychological techniques and without any sleights and it is better than any psychological techniques that you can think, because the psychological techniques are not 100% sure fire and you need to use multiple outs or magician choice to have a good ACAAN. Aside this,
ACAAN is something goes over of any psychological techniques (you don't have to force anything... if you force the number or the card you have a CAAN).
If you try to create a false reality (you have just an illusion of ACAAN, but it is not a real ACAAN again)

ACAAN is Any Card At Any Number any other interpretation is not ACAAN. (Ex. Your video is a really good effect, but it is not an ACAAN)

Just my opinion.

MP
Sariel
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Quote:
On 2011-03-13 21:36, Sariel wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-03-13 20:52, Steven Keyl wrote:
Theo, so it is your belief (and probably the belief of many on this forum) that a magician's performance is trivial and trite. Perhaps entertaining but no more. Whereas a mighty mentalist engages the specatator in a profound experience that a mere magician could never rival.


I am puzzled then at the majority of magicians wanting to perform more and more mentalism in their acts versus a low ratio of mentalists eager to include some dove vanish or cigarette manipulation in their acts.


And more ...


A magician will look at a mentalist act and think, "Hmm, how can I put a book test between my cards across and three fly coin routine?" But a mentalist will never think, "Hmm, how can I put that cool coin matrix between my bank nite and drawing dupe routine."

So I disagree with you Steven.
Steven Keyl
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You've already made that clear. You've now done so twice. However, your view of a modern magician is so intentionally obtuse that it warrants no response. Thank you for your input.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

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"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
Roger Kelly
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I'm predominantly a card magician but I enjoy mainstream comnmercial mentalism and I just luuuuurve mentalism card effects. Five of which begin my card set. But I don't profess to being a mentalist in the sense that you 'serious' guys are. Subtle Scam suits my purposes down to the ground - and its hands off. Beautiful!
Thomas Cooper
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Does anyone have a video demo of subtle scam? It'd be good to see.
I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.

Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending?
Sariel
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Quote:
On 2011-03-14 14:30, Steven Keyl wrote:
You've already made that clear. You've now done so twice. However, your view of a modern magician is so intentionally obtuse that it warrants no response. Thank you for your input.

So if you cannot defend your poor argument because statistics are confirming what I say (magicians jumping on the mentalism bandwagon like flies) you resort to ad hominem attacks?

Then the only one being obtuse here is... YOU!
Roger Kelly
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Quote:
On 2011-03-14 16:05, Theodore Fraser wrote:
Does anyone have a video demo of subtle scam? It'd be good to see.


Theodore, Not too sure that is a good idea mate. I might be wrong, only Tommy can comment for sure, but a dem-vid might blow the gaff!

Honestly - just shell out on it - you won't be disappointed. But a word of caution. The performance, in my humble opinion - blah - aint anywhere near as impactive as your video. But it's a sound investment (for seven quid!!) on an alternative. (I have to say, I don't know the mechanics of your excellent AOCAAN performance nor do I seek it - but if it is confed and pre-show free, I'd stick with that and market it!)

But you won't be disappointed with this. If you're ever 'darn sarf,' we'll exchange notes and I'll give Tommy the seven quid! Smile
Thomas Cooper
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Quote:
On 2011-03-14 17:21, Roger Kelly wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-03-14 16:05, Theodore Fraser wrote:
Does anyone have a video demo of subtle scam? It'd be good to see.


Theodore, Not too sure that is a good idea mate. I might be wrong, only Tommy can comment for sure, but a dem-vid might blow the gaff!

Honestly - just shell out on it - you won't be disappointed. But a word of caution. The performance, in my humble opinion - blah - aint anywhere near as impactive as your video. But it's a sound investment (for seven quid!!) on an alternative. (I have to say, I don't know the mechanics of your excellent AOCAAN performance nor do I seek it - but if it is confed and pre-show free, I'd stick with that and market it!)

But you won't be disappointed with this. If you're ever 'darn sarf,' we'll exchange notes and I'll give Tommy the seven quid! Smile


Haha, it took me two minutes to translate 'darn sarf' Smile

AOCAAN is a nice effect, and yes it is stooge and pre-show free (I refuse to ever use either of those methods, they arn't me), but the gimmicks are quite bulky and its more of an occational peice than a standard effect. I believe the reason Osterlinds Penny bend and The Berglas effect are so infamous is because you only occationally see them. If I perform this effect on demand it demeans it a lot - plus it means I must carry the gimmicks constantly.

I am still interested in all types of ACAAN, because AOCAAN only works because its a formulation of 7 different ACAAN methods. Therefore if I can discover a new method to add to it, to make it more beautiful or more practical... then its worth buying Smile
Now I wish I had money in my bank Smile

Theo
xx
I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.

Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending?
entermagic
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In my opinion a demo video has only one purpose: To give a chance everyone to realize the secret. For this reason, many people don't create a demo video.

MP
Roger Kelly
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Theodore

:) Cunning camera work then?!

No worries. Theodore, if you have to work under those parameters, then you MUST, at least, take a look at SUBTLE SCAM. Totally FASDIU! It might not be to your performance style, for sure, but I'm sure it is worth reading and finding out which works best for you. All you need is to 'manage' the spectators OR spectator and its, effectively, a self-worker and utterly hands off. (Though I DO handle the deck sometimes bit I certainly don't HAVE to!)

Also Tommy updates the pdf with new takes on it (via Library and his own site.) Anything he thinks worth adding is supplied free. There's another thread on this in Workers, which I began, where Picard, I think, has a good idea on it too. I dare say, once you have taken the plunge and witnessed its simplicity, you'll soon be contacting Tommy with your own angle.

In the old words of Nike, just do it!
Thomas Cooper
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On 2011-03-14 18:13, Roger Kelly wrote:
Theodore

:) Cunning camera work then?!

No worries. Theodore, if you have to work under those parameters, then you MUST, at least, take a look at SUBTLE SCAM. Totally FASDIU! It might not be to your performance style, for sure, but I'm sure it is worth reading and finding out which works best for you. All you need is to 'manage' the spectators OR spectator and its, effectively, a self-worker and utterly hands off. (Though I DO handle the deck sometimes bit I certainly don't HAVE to!)

Also Tommy updates the pdf with new takes on it (via Library and his own site.) Anything he thinks worth adding is supplied free. There's another thread on this in Workers, which I began, where Picard, I think, has a good idea on it too. I dare say, once you have taken the plunge and witnessed its simplicity, you'll soon be contacting Tommy with your own angle.

In the old words of Nike, just do it!


No clever camera work Smile

And if its only seven pound, I'll get it now I think. Sounds good Smile
I call myself "Thomas Cooper" here because this stops the magic café appearing when people google my stage name.

Does anyone else find the term "Special User" to be a bit condescending?
Roger Kelly
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Let us know what you think! I'd be interested to hear - even if its cynical.
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