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critter
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So the animals did make it back to Madagascar. Good, now I don't have to watch the movie.
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acesover
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You wonder where I get the idea that you feel the pirates have the right to tell you where to sail. Lets read your post and see. Here it is:

"I don't have the answers to these questions. But I think I would have the common sense not to float a yacht anywhere near pirate infested waters." end quote

Well it sure seems like the pirates sure told you where you can float your boat and you sure as heck agree. If wherever they go you cannot. If that is the case they are definitely telling you where you are limited to go because of their actions. You can say that you are being sensible because by avoiding it you are avoiding the pirates. Well if you avoid driving a car you will never be an an automobile accident either, same theory. Stay home its safer. By the way by your own admission yo said they found pirates 2,500 miles away from Somalia. Seems their sea borders are expanding. I guess you should not go there either.

Do you really believe that there are any ships floating around that 2,500 square mile area that we do not know about right now? Please don't tell me about patroling it with other vessels. Not that we would use it but probably one air craft carrier could control the whole thing. Remember we have planes and helicopters that are much faster than any ship afloat. Of course that move is rqadical but it answers your question. Also the answer in part to your question is. What do you want done when a pirate vessel is found and what can be done? That I cannot answer. I do know what can be done. But how it will look and affect the US diplomatically is another.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
tommy
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I agree and think you should sail over there and tell the pirates.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 14:26, tommy wrote:

I agree and think you should sail over there and tell the pirates.

Seconded.

No, wait.

Actually, I insist that acesover stay far away from the pirates.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
acesover
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As usual two of the brighest light bulbs do not get it.

The pirates have to be eliminated, not tolerated. They are the scum of the earth and have no reason to go on living. They, in my opinion have no rights. They lost them when they decided to become pirates. So they are fair game and to be disposed of any way possible as long as it is permenant and the quicker the better. Make the punishment so severe the crime is not worth considering.
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Dannydoyle
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Couple of things about torture. First off randomly torturing someone on the off chance that they may have information (like they do in so many of the ultra lefts favorite countries.) does not work. Torturing someone who you are pretty certain has the information you want actually works quite well.

I am 100% against torture as far as our American government goes. As far as any section of the government local or federal or international goes I am dead set against it. We should be above it. We just should. I am not saying don't do it on the basis that it won't work, I am saying don't do it on a basis of who we should be, and who we would be when we do.

Now define torture. There are "enhanced interogation techniques" which come VERY close to the line. I am not smart enough to know which is which. Is sleep deprivation torture? Like I said terms have to be agreed upon before it can be settled I think.

Interestingly enough pirates themselves have always had a special status as far as most international law goes. Seriously look it up.
Danny Doyle
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-03-01 21:56, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-03-01 15:00, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Yeah, acesover, that quaint, old Geneva Convention.

I do think we should take more aggressive action on the issue of the Somali pirates; they are terrorists, and we should never negotiate with terrorists. However, that stance doesn't necessarily carry over to my opinion on the rest of our foreign affairs.

I'm almost certain you'll call me a foolish liberal or worse for this, but there's a difference between the Good Guys and the Bad Guys- namely that the Good Guys don't compromise their values, even when the Bad Guys don't play fair. America was founded on certain principles, and whenever we violate them, we lessen ourselves. If we re-examined our foreign policy and re-aligned it to those principles, I think quite a few of our foreign relations problems would resolve themselves quietly and peacefully.


What principals are you talking about here and how do we need to "re-allign" them exactly?


I was really hoping you would answer this one.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Well we are not stopping you. Bon Voyage!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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acesover
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DannyDoyle,

If your above post is in refrence to my post I would like to make it clear that I am not advocating torture. Just elimination of this scum. If on a pirate ship and not a hostage, you are guilty of being a pirate and as I mentioned and should be eliminated quickly. We already know what they are made of, and it is not good. Unfortunately this may sound like we are not much better than the pirates in our style because of the way I am suggesting adminstering punishment and those thoughts may be correct. In this instance however I believe the ends definitely justify the means.

If someone brutally kills a loved one I do not believe you would be satisfied if they went to prison for 10 years and were said to be rehabilited and then released. However if they were never able to harm anyone again or see another sunrise I believe this would give you "some" closure. I am not saying you are at peace with the resolution because nothing will replace your loved one for they are gone forever. However I would hope that it gives you some solance that the person responsbile for this paid the ultimate price just as did your loved one and is no longer able to inflict this sort of thing on another person or family ever again.
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acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 15:49, tommy wrote:
Well we are not stopping you. Bon Voyage!


If I could I would. However I already served and am at the age where I can only give opinions and not contribute on a one to one basis. But I repeat I would be the first in line if young enough to serve if they needed men. I am sure I cannot say the same for you. Not everyone thinks alike. In fact by some of your posts it shows that some do not think at all at times.

To use a pun Tommy...Whatever floats your boat. probably human waste laden water. Take a dip it suits you.
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tommy
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Never mind what you would do with them, how are you going to catch them in the first place. I don't think these pirates are wearing pirate outfits and sailing around flying the skull and bones, by the time you know they are pirates, not just innocent people out fishing or whatever, they have pirated a vessel and have hostages. So how are you going to id them and catch them exactly?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
acesover
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The simple answer to these questions is that these pirates are not a big enough problem to warrant measures to be taken in order to stop them. If they were attacking oil tankers that were owned by Exxon or some other such oil company you would see action taken and the problem solved quickly.

Believe me this is not an insurmountable task to check the ships or should I say dingys coming from these rinky dink ports. A few lives here and there are not important enough. If it involves important people or big money things change. I believe that over the years we are only looking at around 258 million dollars. Not a lot in the scheme of things. Probably the equivelant of two CEO's salary for a year.
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MagicSanta
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Okay....why not be honest and say that quietly the number of pirates should be reduced. Let us just assume they are becoming farmers and leave it at that.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-03-04 00:15, acesover wrote:

If they were attacking oil tankers that were owned by Exxon or some other such oil company you would see action taken and the problem solved quickly.

I have to ask, do you really have ANY idea what you have been talking about?

Because the pirates have been attacking oil tankers owned by Exxon and other such oil companies for several years now:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/0......20110209

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7733482.stm

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/12/0......20071204

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/......019.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Balducci, I think you owe Mr. Acesover an apology. You presented information on a Saudi, Italian, and S. Korean oil ship which is different than taking an Exxon owned vessel. The other article was about Nigeria, which is on the other side of Africa from Somalia, which is a different matter as the subject is Somalian pirates not Nigerian. Note that Nigerians would be very upset with you for confusing the two people. While I see your attempted point I, the voice of reason, shall straighten this all out.

Mr. Acesover, if I may, was making the point that US interest has not really been effected, which is true. The reason is simply that very few, if any, oilers, are registered in the United States. It is kind of like trucks, they tend to go where it is cheaper to register the ship (that is why you see trucks from Oklahoma and Missouri all over the place, companies register them there if they run intrastate). There is an obligation to keep the shipping lanes open but since the US can't win for losing no matter what it would likely take a Somalian pirate dropping nukes on Dallas then a couple years of pondering what we did to deserve it before they get serious. There are wonderful ships that can launch little boats capable of chasing down and....uh....resolving any pirate. There is no call to bring them to the US for trial, we do not owe them anything and they do not, and I know this will shock you, have civil rights in the US. I don't personally think the US should do anything, the Koreans, Arabs, and Indians should be out there as they have done before. No one cares if they kill pirates it is only when WE kill pirates that it is a horrible loss of life and all that horse crap.

Any questions?
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 16:14, acesover wrote:
DannyDoyle,

If your above post is in refrence to my post I would like to make it clear that I am not advocating torture. Just elimination of this scum. If on a pirate ship and not a hostage, you are guilty of being a pirate and as I mentioned and should be eliminated quickly. We already know what they are made of, and it is not good. Unfortunately this may sound like we are not much better than the pirates in our style because of the way I am suggesting adminstering punishment and those thoughts may be correct. In this instance however I believe the ends definitely justify the means.

If someone brutally kills a loved one I do not believe you would be satisfied if they went to prison for 10 years and were said to be rehabilited and then released. However if they were never able to harm anyone again or see another sunrise I believe this would give you "some" closure. I am not saying you are at peace with the resolution because nothing will replace your loved one for they are gone forever. However I would hope that it gives you some solance that the person responsbile for this paid the ultimate price just as did your loved one and is no longer able to inflict this sort of thing on another person or family ever again.


No sir it did not reference anyone spacific, simply torture in general.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Dannydoyle wrote:

Quote:
I am 100% against torture as far as our American government goes. As far as any section of the government local or federal or international goes I am dead set against it. We should be above it. We just should. I am not saying don't do it on the basis that it won't work, I am saying don't do it on a basis of who we should be, and who we would be when we do.

Bravo Danny! Smile
I hate to even have to bring up the "torture doesn't work" argument. It's just a sign of the degraded times that people have to actually be reminded about what Danny posted above.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-03-04 01:03, MagicSanta wrote:

Balducci, I think you owe Mr. Acesover an apology. You presented information on a Saudi, Italian, and S. Korean oil ship which is different than taking an Exxon owned vessel. The other article was about Nigeria, which is on the other side of Africa from Somalia, which is a different matter as the subject is Somalian pirates not Nigerian. Note that Nigerians would be very upset with you for confusing the two people. While I see your attempted point I, the voice of reason, shall straighten this all out.

Santa, always the voice of reason. You're right about the Exxon ship, I did confuse Nigerian and Somalian pirates. Sorry about that.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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I actually think the big boys in shipping are prepaying the pirates for safe passage.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 15:36, Dannydoyle wrote:...

I am 100% against torture as far as our American government goes. As far as any section of the government local or federal or international goes I am dead set against it. ...


So it's okay for private contractors and vigilantes but not formal governments?
There is a segment of human demographics which responds very well to both the giving and getting of torture - though the threat of imminent torture to loved ones might be a more effective lever than mere isolated torture itself. Something about the notions of "agency" and "righteous" appear to make the practice of such acts far closer to acceptable than one might expect.

Human behavior is what it is. Whining about how everyone would look good in white robes and stuff ... well you can't always get what you want by merely telling someone you are going to pray for them.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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