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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicSanta
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They tend to do it during the warmer months for seniors, at least in the states, and it is considered an honor to get to be on the ship. A lot of the countries have those ships and most are ran by the Naval Academies. To be serious Jeff I don't understand the question or what you are looking for here. They have the ships, some request to work on it and get picked others get put on regular ships to get training. Being able to give and follow orders are part of the military, that simple. If you are upset that someone was killed the fact is in the service people are killed in accidents all the time. It is not an easy job and you do work hazardous gigs at time.

Note I never said it was bout knots, I was explaining marlinspike, the training is about teamwork and it is, to them, a good thing to be on that ship. When the USS New Jersey, a battleship, came back it was a volunteer crew, meaning we all requested to be on board her, because it was an honor to be on that ship. It was not great conditions but it was a historical and important vessel and I was happy to serve on her. Same with the USS Constitution, they are guys requesting to be on that ship every day and it is an honor to be selected. You do not have to do that training, you do not need it to be a captain or admiral, the vast majority of officers do not ever go near a three masted ship.

Here is a video of a number of the tall ships sailing into NYC harbor July 4th, 1976. The German ship is likely one of them.

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/656750......y-violin
Woland
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Based on one man's reconstruction from photographs, here are the ships that participated:

US - Eagle
Denmark - Danmark
Norway - Christian Radich
Argentina - Libertad
Chile - Esmeralda
Colombia - Gloria
Germany - Gorch F*o*c*k (asterisks added)
Japan - Nippon Maru
Poland - Dar Pomorza
Portugal - Sagres II
Spain - Juan Sebastian de Elcano
Romania - Mircea
USSR - Tovarishch
USSR - Kruzenstern
US - Gaziela Primiero
Italy - Amerigo Vespucci
MagicSanta
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Thank you...I had a feeling it had to be there. For those that missed it the 1976 celebration was breathtaking. The tall ships alone are worth finding the video if it is still around.
Woland
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It was very exciting indeed.
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2011-03-03 16:00, MagicSanta wrote:
If you are upset that someone was killed the fact is in the service people are killed in accidents all the time.


Don't get confused: I only raised the incident at an example of the controversy surrounding zu Guttenberg. I myself am not upset about it, and the only reason I asked about tall ships was simple curiosity. Had you forced me to guess, I would have said it's just tradition, kind of like the honor guard which wears colonial uniforms.

I have no idea why the Gorch F*0*C*K incident was controversial, BTW. I suppose I could read up on it.
Woland
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Looking at some of the news accounts, it appears that the incident on the G.F. was associated with what was called a "mutiny." After a cadet fell to his death, at least some of the other cadets refused to go up into the rigging. The student who died, by the way, was identified as "Sarah S."

Quote:
According to a leaked parliamentary report, several cadets on the Gorch **** were reluctant to climb the mast in November following the death of a 25-year-old student - known only as Sarah S - during a stop-over in Salvador de Bahia in Brazil.

Hellmut Koenigshaus, parliament's liaison to the military, wrote that the cadets "did not want to go aloft after the painful loss of their comrade and others did not want to continue on the Gorch ****", Germany's Bild reported.

The ship's commanding officer, Captain Norbert Schatz, reportedly threatened to return the trainees to Germany and declare them unfit for service, according to testimony from several of them cited in the report.

Four cadets were accused of "inciting rebellion", AFP news agency reported.

After the incident, the group of all 70 cadets were flown back to Germany and the Ministry of Defence decided their training on Gorch **** was finished.

The Gorch **** was built in 1958 and replaced an earlier ship of the same name. It is commonly used for training purposes.

Investigators are due to arrive in Argentina in the next few days.


I'm with Kapitan Schatz on this one, I think. You can't sail a tall ship without going aloft.

The previous G.F. built in 1933 was taken by the CCCP and re-named the Tovarisch, by the way. G.F. was the pen-name of a popular German writer who was killed during the Battle of Jutland.

W.
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Yes the 1976 exhibition was quite exciting for several reasons. The Esmeralda from Chile, as Woland perhaps remembers, was the famous Pinochet torture ship.

"Reports from Amnesty International, the US Senate and Chilean Truth and Reconciliation Commission[1] describe the ship as a kind of a floating jail and torture chamber for political prisoners of the Augusto Pinochet regime from 1973 to 1980. It is claimed that probably over a hundred persons were kept there at times and subjected to hideous treatment [2], among them British priest Michael Woodward, who later died as a result of torture.[3]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esmeralda_%28BE-43%29
Woland
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Well, landmark, I actually didn't know anything about the Esmeralda. But according to the report prepared by the United States Institute for Peace, the priest Michael Woodward Iribarry (a dual citizen who was born in Valparaiso, and "a member of the Christian for Socialism movement which practised the theology of liberation") was given "emergency attention at the breakwater, an area under navy guard where the training ship "Esmeralda" and the "Lebu" were docked. He was then taken to the navy hospital where he died as a result of "cardio-respiratory arrest," due to his pitiable physical state." It doesn't say that his torture, if that's what it was, occurred on the Esmeralda. It might have. In the heat of battle of a counter-revolutionary coup in which the Chilean armed forces prevented the installation of a Marxist-Leninist regime, there were undoubtedly excesses. Those excesses deserve to be investigated, brought to light, and condemned. However, the total number killed following the Chilean counter-revolution was orders of magnitudes lower than the millions and tens of millions who were killed after Marxist-Leninist revolutions all over the world. Does that Make Michael Woodward's death less tragic? No. But he chose his side.

Woland
MagicSanta
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I saw the Esmeralda in Concepcion Chile, beautiful ship. The other one I saw a few times was The Star of India, another beauty.

Thank you Stone, I was afraid you were related to the young woman. It is a terrible thing but you are correct in that they do it for tradition and team building. Those young fellows who decided to mutiny will be finding new career paths.
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