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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
No raids are not by definition violent. The reason they do it in a quick and surprising manner is to keep evidence from being destroyed, that simple. I don't know if you realize this being that live in the great White North but there are cases here where people get very ill and even die because companies do not follow the procedures set up by the FDA. It is a shame that such regulations are required, it is a shame that inspections are required, but it is a bigger shame that people, and very often children, die because cheese makers often servicing the Latino community cannot take the time or care to do their product right. I think this may be semantics in that your idea of violence (and that really poorly written comment about the organic (unprocessed and perhaps deadly) milk company.
http://newhope360.com/families-sue-whole......raw-milk http://www.foodqualitynews.com/Public-Co......facility http://www.newsinferno.com/legal-news/e-......florida/ http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brook......EEDNAME= and for our Canadian friends: http://www.canada.com/health/Products+ma......ory.html Want more? Want violence associated with the FDA or similar inspectors? Look up Stuart Alexander in association with the Santos Linguisa factory in San Leondro, California...there was violence there during an inspection. Go check it out. Now lets see your example of violence against the manufacturers. Wait, here, I'll provide you with a link to ol' Stuart. You'll see he is classified as a mass murderer, gee, I wonder who the victims of his violence were? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Alex......urderer) |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
I consider it a pretty big shame that people die because they can't afford the proper medication because some company gets an artificially imposed monopoly on it and gets to charge what ever they want
Hey, wasn't that the argument for what drug companies would do if NOT for regulators like the fda? You mean, yet again, the terrible fear mongoring scenario used to justify these measures is exactly the scenario produced by them?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
Thank you santa. Christmas does indeed come early at times for those of us who are well behaved;)
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
RS, seriously, you are trying to say I can't back up my claims by focusing on a claim that I never made.
I have shown several examples that back up exactly the claim I DID make. If you are going to attempt to argue, try to refer to what was actually said.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
You put up links where companies were violently taken over and by violent I mean VIOLENT not taken over by authorities? I provide a real act of violence, three people murdered, I remember when it happened, it was violent.
What do you suggest as an alternate Glenn? You are a greedy guy, that is clear, don't you see why these companies would want an exclusive right to distribute a medication they came up with? It makes other manufacturers made who want to make it but guess what? Those same companies certainly don't gripe when THEY are at the front of the line and get those seven years of exclusive manufacturing rights. You have a product called Forgery I believe, I've not seen it in performance, would you have no problem if others just started making and selling it for less than you (if it is a different Glenn West then I guess it doesn't matter)? Say it is really an original idea (and not that gawd awful version I did see a couple years ago) of yours that you developed and packaged and put together a presentation, do you feel you should have a clear shot at selling it w/out being stepped on? I know you are anti-everything regulated but there really often is a good reason. I, for one, want my govt to keep overseas drugs out that are not clean or that don't function correctly. I want food manufacturers inspected, I want milk companies to be certified, I want lil' kids named Jose or Richie to be able to eat cheese without getting sick. |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
You trying to focus on what santa actually asked, and why he asked would help you greatly.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Santa, I am actually fine with independent 3rd party regulations. The problem comes from having a centrally controlled monopoly.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-11 01:32, RS1963 wrote: And what he asked for is something different than what I claimed.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
More on how the fda, and, this time specifically patents, lead to more harm in the medical world.
http://c4sif.org/2011/01/update-patents-......ng-drug/ It also touches on how the costs Santa is fond of pointing out as justification for such monopolies, are often largely costs that are the result of the fda to begin with. More on how the current system HINDERS innovation, exactly opposite of the stated intentions: http://www.stephankinsella.com/2011/02/k......uticals/
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-11 08:30, gdw wrote: Your train just doesn't run on a completed track does it? |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-11 14:46, RS1963 wrote: Ok, I make claim "x." Santa says show us an example of "q." I say, I didn't say "q," I said "x," and here are several examples of "x."
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Glenn, it continues to be a problem that you state one thing, then claim you meant another thing, and then cling to something else while proclaiming that you were misunderstood. If someone is so frequently misunderstood perhaps it is the person attempting to communicate rather than the receiver of the information.
This is what I'm getting from you: 1. Patents should not be allowed as it gives a monopoly to the patent holder. 2. Drugs should not be regulated but left to the companies that which to release the drug or versions there of to self regulate. 3. Any action by a govt regulatory agency is 'violent' and they make use of 'force' to achieve thier goals. is that about right? I expect you to state it isn't and then making statements implying it is. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Santa, I pointed out the exact quote of what I said. There was no attempt to say I meant something else. I said exactly what I meant.
No, not every action taken is violence, just like not every act taken by police involves a gun. That does not mean that they don't use guns, just as the fact that some arrests happen without violence does not mean that violence is not a tool used. I've said before, I'm fine with regulations, so long as they are voluntary. Independent regulators can be great. The problem comes from having a centralized monopoly on regulations. Especially one that gets to use an organization allowed to throw you in a cage if you don't play by their rules.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Voluntary....right.
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
So then if there were voluntary regulations. It would be fine for this company to make a drug of say a blood thinner for heart patients. But they can make it anyway they want too. They can make it as strong or weak as they want to they can put just about anything they want to into it be it harmful or not and it would be fine. Right Glenn? No need to make sure that anyone making medications is doing it the proper way so it won't harm anyone now right? The ones making it the wrong way would be more than likely following their own regulations so that's perfectly fine right?
Of course your going to say "That isn't what I'm saying!" But it is exactly what you mean regardless of if you think you are saying it or not. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
My wife NEEDS medication to live, period. Without them she will die. It is important to her that she get medicine that is properly made, clean, and does what it is suppose to. If the tablet appears different in shape or color, and that happens often with generics, she calls and verifies that it is correct. RS is absolutely right. If left to their own accord one company will add something special to make theirs different or perhaps make them in a country with no care or controls.
I also agree with RS that Glenn will not understand his response and also claim that he is not at all saying what he posted. Yes no one should be sick or die because they cannot afford their medication. Yes the manufacturers often stick it to their customers. Yes there is a reason that the system the way it works now exist and that is to get these companies to continue working on medications and those meds do save lives. Glenn, if you have problems with US regulations then please, PLEASE, do NOT buy products made in this country. Do not take medications created by American companies or manufactured here. Refuse to eat foods that are USDA or FDA approved or that come from the US. Not only does everything here go through some form of regulation they also go across that govt controlled border into your beautiful country of Canada. So take a stand, I bet we learn our lesson quick by your boycott of our regulated products. Need meds? Tell your local pharmacy that you only want meds made in Somalia or Canada or India, maybe China, and if all there is is an American version tell them you would rather accept the illness like a man than become healed like a sheep. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
If one were discussing this stuff, one could talk about all of the impure counterfeit drugs coming out of Mexico and harming people.
If one were discussing this stuff. Which I'm not.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-11 18:44, RS1963 wrote: I'm not going to contest that being what I am "saying" or not, but I will ask you, do you really think that makes any sense as a business plan? Spends hundreds of thousands of dollars making a drug that won't help anyone. How many people do you think would actually end up buying it? Hell, how many stores/pharmacies would? Yeah, because stores want to kill their customers. They have no interest in making sure they sell safe products. Where are these millionaire psychos in your world?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-11 19:08, gdw wrote: You truly don't understand do you? A company that is making a bad brand of medicine isn't going to say they are they are going to say it is the best. strongest, Perfect way to go. Re read what santa posted just after what I said. Maybe it will help you understand things if you actually read it. Then again who am I trying to kid it's you here we are talking about you won't understand it no matter how many times you read it. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
RS, I never said they would tell people it wad bad. Wtf are you smoking?
A store doesn't just take a companies word on their products. They are going to want to know that what they buy to sell their customers is safe. There's nothing stopping people from testing and verifying products. Sounds like a great business opportunity, that would explain why there already are businesses doing this. Just saying your drug is the best means nothing if you have to deal with actual competition. Unlike when you have a monopoly, can charge what you want, and have no incentive to actually improve your product. As for Santas post, it actually supports my point. His wife checks when her drugs are different, and what does she do? Calls the pharmacy, or doctor. People who have a vested interest in making sure they know what they are providing their customers. Right now they just take the FDAs word. The single monopoly regulator that has no reason to be swayed by lobbyist. No, none at all. As opposed to a system where they would have competition, where people are going to trust the testing of the company that has been the most reliable, rather than having to rely on the only game in town.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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