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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Step right up! » » Loftus deck problems...(maybe it's just ME!) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jon-O the Great
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I’m having a problem with the new Loftus cards.

In my latest shipment, they changed the key from 9H to KC. That wasn’t so bad, I'll just have learn a new key card. But, in my opinion, there are 2 other problems caused by that change of keys.

1) Suddenly, most of the cards are now black. Of the 48 cards in the deck, 38 of them are black. There are only 4 red face cards, none of them aces , so can’t put a red ace in front of the key for the 1st trick.

2) There is even 1 INDIFFERENT KC in the deck. So if you look, at one point, you can see 3 KC in a row. How do you explain that to customers? (It was pointed out to me by my 8 YO pitchman!) In my opinion, that is just plain STUPID.

To alleviate the problem, I just removed 2 KC cards (one indifferent, one key) but why should I have to?

I’m thinking of opening a couple of more decks and exchanging some red cards for some of the black ones but that means I’ll have 2-3 of the same red cards for demo. AND when they buy, customers will be getting that stupid deck.

All in all, I’ll be calling Loftus in the morning to see why they allowed this to happen. Maybe I shoulda stuck with MM and their non-collated cards after all.

Jon
DonDriver
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Jon,

I have gotten decks with a double key card.Just do like you did and throw away the two cards.

China has no idea what the words "quality control" are.Unfortunately U.S. consumers consumers have come to accept this just to be able to buy things cheap.Kinda of sad don't you think ?

As far as the RED BLACK problem goes,it dosen't matter.
Don
Matthew W
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I just removed two KC from my demo deck. Most people that buy don't do the full routine, so it doesn't really matter if there is an indifferent card. I will be calling loftus tomorrow too. IDK why it changed from the 9H
-Matt
Jon-O the Great
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I have 3-4 new MM decks left. My plan is to demo them (but sell Loftus) until they are so dirty they stink. The problem is, I acquired over 2 gross of Loftus from another pitch guy, so I have over 600 decks of Loftus'. It may take a while to sell all of them. In fact, at an average of 15 decks per show, it's almost a years supply. Oh well.... Maybe by the end of the year, Loftus will have the QC problem sorted out.

Jon
DonDriver
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I think its best to remove the two double cards from EVERY deck as you go along just to be nice to your marks...I know "be nice to your marks" even I do whats right once in awhile.

Don
sethb
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Hey Jon, China may have quality control problems, but Loftus is an American company! I wouldn't take those defective decks; who ever heard of a Svengali Deck with an indifferent key card? That's ridiculous. I'd contact Loftus ASAP, explain the problem, and ask them to make good. I have a feeling that Loftus won't be too happy about the situation, either.

While tossing the indifferent key card and its mate would be a quick fix, now you would have a deck that is two cards short -- and remember that the deck only has 48 cards to begin with. To me, that's not an acceptable long-term solution. Alternatively, if all of the other key cards in all the other decks are the same (KC), then I guess you could go through each deck, throw away the bad keys, replace them with one of the good keys from another deck, and then toss the short decks. Sounds like you would need about 600 replacement keys, so that would be about 25 decks ruined (24 keys in each deck). BUT -- who has the time for that, and why should you have to do it?

I also agree that there should be a fair balance of red and black cards, so the deck looks normal with a riffle display. While it doesn't have to be exactly a 50/50 split, the 38/48 split you have doesn't cut the mustard, in my opinion. Like Jon, I always use a different color indifferent card for the DL, and a face card if possible, to get the maximum impact from the switch of cards. If these decks can't let you do that easily, then something's not right.

We may sell cheap stuff, but we don't sell crap!! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Jon-O the Great
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Quote:
On 2011-03-21 09:58, DonDriver wrote:
I think its best to remove the two double cards from EVERY deck as you go along just to be nice to your marks...I know "be nice to your marks" even I do whats right once in awhile.

Don


Don, that would require opening every deck. Now there are TWO layers of plastic, with the fuschia "magic cards" wrapper between them, so that would require a HECK of a lot of work. I think I'll just take the matter up with Loftus and see. I'm sure they probably have a jillion gross of these babies, so it may be a while before it works itself out...Smile I just hope my MM demo cards hold out until it does.Smile

Jon
JoeJoe
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Quote:
Don, that would require opening every deck. Now there are TWO layers of plastic, with the fuschia "magic cards" wrapper between them, so that would require a HECK of a lot of work. I think I'll just take the matter up with Loftus and see. I'm sure they probably have a jillion gross of these babies, so it may be a while before it works itself out...Smile I just hope my MM demo cards hold out until it does.Smile


Just a few years ago, the same Loftus cards weren't collated and I would setup each and every deck for the marks ... never once did I complain about that, most likely because of the stories I've heard of Harry Loraine and Dave Walker in the old'en days and how they would buy bulk cards, cut them manually, and arrange them all, with piles of cards scattered all over the hotel room. Talk about "work"!

My 2cents ... I wouldn't worry too much ... I have the same Loftus decks and mine don't have those problems so I am sure it is a temporary problem that will correct itself in time. I personally would just sell them outright ... I doubt any would ever come back to you. If they aren't smart enough to figure it out, they aren't going to be smart enough to do the trick anyways so who gives a hoot. It's a Svengali deck dude, not a new car.

-JoeJoe
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Matthew W
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I agree with JoeJoe. How many people really sit down and learn the deck enough to even do 1/4 of what you demonstrate? I don't think many. Had I not read this, I probably would not have even noticed, as I still have a couple of my old batch of loftus cards that I will be using as my demos. The deck still works.

Hopefully loftus will fix it in their next shipment.
-Matt
Jon-O the Great
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I can certainly understand when the 'golden oldies' did what they did, they did it as a stop-gap measure. But I have a year's supply of decks. I'm not in the mood to correct someone elses mistake if I don't have to.

I know that when Loftus was out of decks, David and Brian collated all their MM cards before selling them. That was their privelege. But it saved me lots of work to just tell (and show) the buyers how to collate them. I sold many gross of them and never had ANYONE come back because they were not collated.

PLUS, I think EVERYONE using their cards needs to call Loftus and mention it, even if you don't have the problem yet. When I called, the lady said I was the 1st but as we were talking, someone else called.

It seems that they only have these defective decks, so the only solution is to send them back. Sure don't want to do that, if I don't have to.

Jon
Matthew W
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I called this morning, about 10 or 10:30, so it was probably me. I won't be sending them back. If I did, I won't have any cards for the events I have coming up.
-Matt
Jon-O the Great
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Quote:
On 2011-03-21 11:58, Matthew W wrote:
I called this morning, about 10 or 10:30, so it was probably me. I won't be sending them back. If I did, I won't have any cards for the events I have coming up.


Well, I sure don't WANNA send them back. Two gross of these babies weigh a little less than a ton! I was thinking if they sent 10 red indifferent cards for each deck, I could replace the black ones. I know it would still require opening every box and playing with them. But 10% of something...

Jon
DonDriver
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I was thinking if they sent 10 red indifferent cards for each deck, I could replace the black ones. I know it would still require opening every box and playing with them. But 10% of something...

Jon
[/quote]

Loftus isn't going to to do anything about the problem.They surely aren't going to send you red cards Jon.I doubt they even call China and tell them.IT DOSEN'T MATTER as far as sales go.It only matters that it bothers you and I do understand how it would.Thats why I would pull the the two double cards in each deck.Just so I could sleep better at night.But the bottom line is the MARKS could care less if there are two double cards or there are more black cards in the deck because they are M A R K S !

Don
Jon-O the Great
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Got it. So Loftus' idea is really the same as mine. GTFM! Just gotta figure out the simplest, easiest way for ME to do it! I'm leaning more and more toward ordering a couple of dozen decks from MM and using them for demos. It may not be exactly ethical but is sure is simpler.

Right now, I give the buyers a little slip of paper with links to a guy on You Tube "...doing about a 1.5 hour demo. Shows every thing close up." I could just add a line, something to the effect, "There are 2 extra cards in this box blah blah blah." I really don't want to open 600 boxes and remove 1200 cards.

Just call me..
Dis-honest Jon
DonDriver
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Like Joe Joe said..."its not a new car" You guys would have NEVER made it working a "Jam Auction" hahaha

Don
sethb
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Jon -- If you sent the decks back to Loftus on their dime, it wouldn't matter how much they weighed (and we know they're not light). And if they sent you replacement decks before you mailed the bad ones back, you wouldn't have any disruption in your supply. Just a thought.

Don, you're right, we're definitely not "jam auction" material! But in this case, why should the customer suffer because the wholesaler screws up? I'm not blaming Loftus, because they probably had no idea the decks were bad until somebody caught it. But the buck has to stop somewhere, and it seems to me that it ought to stop there. I'll be very interested to see what, if anything, Loftus does about this. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
0pus
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Seth -- I don't want to put words into Don's mouth, but I don't think he agrees that these decks are "bad."

It just doesn't matter.

0pus
Matthew W
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My loftus sales rep called and they are not shipping any more of them. They will be sending what they have left back. She said that the company offered to collate them before shipping, and they accepted. Normally the cards are done by hand at Loftus, and in the past I have given them a couple days to collate and pack up the bulk cards for me when they were 'out of stock'.

She did offer to send me a UPS sticker to mail back on their cost, but I declined, as I need the stock and don't see it as that big a problem.
-Matt
Jon-O the Great
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When Susan called me with the news, I asked her, since they were gonna have to do different cards anyway, why not have a red Ace for the key card? She said she'd see what she could do. I'm thinking that would be good, especially if they split the rest of the deck red/black. So riffling the indifferent cards, the colors would seem to be evenly divided.

She said it would be about 8 weeks or so before the new ones come in. In the meantime, dis-honest me will be getting a doz or so from MM to demo.

Jon
DonDriver
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Quote:
On 2011-03-21 14:47, sethb wrote:
Jon -- If you sent the decks back to Loftus on their dime, it wouldn't matter how much they weighed (and we know they're not light). And if they sent you replacement decks before you mailed the bad ones back, you wouldn't have any disruption in your supply. Just a thought.

Don, you're right, we're definitely not "jam auction" material! But in this case, why should the customer suffer because the wholesaler screws up? I'm not blaming Loftus, because they probably had no idea the decks were bad until somebody caught it. But the buck has to stop somewhere, and it seems to me that it ought to stop there. I'll be very interested to see what, if anything, Loftus does about this. SETH


Seth,
I couldn't agree with you more.Loftus should make it good but I'm betting they won't.The only thing you said that's not true is "why should the customer suffer" They won't suffer because the decks will wind up in the land fill within a week.I would just pull out the two doubles and just move on.Its not right nor do I think its right that the decks are "LARRY" but if you can't fight them....do the best you can and GTFM.

Years ago when a pitchman ordered a new kitchen gadget the first they would ask the wholesaler is "are they all workers?" I'm sure you all know what he was asking.Of course the wholesaler would say "of course,they all work the same not to worry".Than when you would open the box there would be 2 on top packed in a different bag with a hand note on the bag that said "WORKERS" hahahaha...don't you love it.

Don

Don

Foot note for you guys: LARRY-pitch lingo for anything that's not good or borke.This can be an item or even a person.K on the other hand means anything good and works good and can also be used to describe a person as well as an item.
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