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yin_howe
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Dear All,

Are there other CnB routines/sources of CnB routines that uses 3 different colored balls, other then the following:

1. Tri-Color CnB by Leo Leslie, De Courcy and Aldo Colombini
2. Fun Shop CnB by Kent Gunn

I'm trying to create a tri-color routine for myself.

Thanks to all in advance
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
funsway
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Contact me at gusarimagic@comcast.net

I have a routine" in progress" that might provide some ideas for you
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
yin_howe
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Quote:
On 2011-03-21 05:10, yin_howe wrote:
Dear All,

Are there other CnB routines/sources of CnB routines that uses 3 different colored balls, other then the following:

1. Tri-Color CnB by Leo Leslie, De Courcy and Aldo Colombini
2. Fun Shop CnB by Kent Gunn

I'm trying to create a tri-color routine for myself.

Thanks to all in advance

3. Devlin CnB by David Devlin
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
kentfgunn
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Yin,

Travers Cooper had a really great routine. It was published in a British magic magazine in the thirties. I can probably dig up a reference when I get back to the library. I'm on vacation.

Scotty York has a routine as well. I'm pretty sure that one is in the X-Rated cups and balls pamphlet, he put out, again, I'll double check on that one too.

Lawrence O has a routine, it's on a Stevens VHS tape.

It's a difficult exercise to routine something like this. If you choose to go down this path, be advised you'll lose any ability to re-arrange the routine on the fly. There's no jazzing through a routine like this. It will set whatever sequence to choose to use, in stone.

I don't really think the additional complications are worth it, in the long run for most magicians. Most will continue to use a real master's routine, Dai Vernon. There's a reason most people do the cups after his fashion. It is the best routine extant for most. Only dillitantes and nut-jobs would ever have the temerity to actually even question the path taken by most.

I sure hope you keep going. It'll be worth it, I promise. Don't be afraid to realize that you, Yin Howe, may have the world's greatest cups and balls routine inside him. Believe in yourself, experiment, refine . . . but, above all, don't just fantasize about doing magic. You must put props in your hands, develop, practice and rehearse. Inventing your own magic is dreadfully difficult and frustrating. To come up with new stuff that actually has any value in the real world is a lifelong pursuit. Oh and don't publish anything until what you have has been vetted by magicians you respect. There are far too many people who poop out minor variations, unworkable tripe and worthless, meandering nonsense. I should know, Smile

Yin, send me an email Monday to remind me to send you what I have on tri-color routine references.

Kent
Michael Baker
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For what it's worth, I tackled a similar problem when attempting to construct a coin routine. I was initially looking at a Matrix-type effect, but with coins of different denominations. Recognizing that the audience has to exercise their memories just to keep up with whether or not a card supposedly had a coin under it, I saw it as potentially too much for them to then be saddled with the additional task of keeping up with which particular coin(s) they may be.

My ultimate choice was to simplify the playing field, and eliminate all but one card. Of course this ultimately left the Matrix genre, and became a simpler form of coin assembly. Coins vanished one at a time and progressively assembled under the card.

Knowing also, that Goshman had a sponge ball routine with balls, not only of different colors, but also different sizes, I saw a parallel by virtue of the fact that they gathered progressively in the audience member's hand.

For any such C&B routine, I feel it is of primal importance to first consider the amount of mental work the audience is being asked to do, and build the routine with that thought always in mind.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
yin_howe
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Quote:
On 2011-03-22 09:12, kentfgunn wrote:

....It's a difficult exercise to routine something like this. If you choose to go down this path, be advised you'll lose any ability to re-arrange the routine on the fly. There's no jazzing through a routine like this. It will set whatever sequence to choose to use, in stone.

I don't really think the additional complications are worth it, in the long run for most magicians. Most will continue to use a real master's routine, Dai Vernon. There's a reason most people do the cups after his fashion. It is the best routine extant for most....

Kent

I do agree with you on this Mr Gunn, and I also do a version of the Vernon CnB.. Smile

Intend use a Tri-Color routine for a magic competition.. If I do come up with one..
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
Andrew Zuber
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I think the tri-colored routine is a worthwhile pursuit. Not only does it add another layer of magic to a routine, it causes added bewilderment among the spectators. It's not as east for them to think, "he must be using a fourth ball." There's more to it than that.

I think the three colors add an element of beauty and mystery, and allow for some additional stories to go along with the trick.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
kentfgunn
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Michael, I can see how a coin routine might become too complex to follow with different coins. I worked up a Derek Dingle routine from Dingle's Deceptions that use four different coins. It was pretty straightforward. But I do believe it was harder for anyone but a magician to follow than the matrix done with four similar coins.

I think, if you keep a cups and balls routine short; under four minutes, it helps on every level. The sequence I worked out only has three effects. The balls gather in the middle, one ball jumps from cup to cup and then somehow bigger balls magically appear. I firmly believe the different colors enhance the effects and make them easier to follow.

Your mileage may vary. For the lucky people who haven't sat through this . . .

You can see if I'm way off base, or treading down an ok path.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEYmGnK4K9g

So . . . did you remember the blue ball specifically jumping from cup to cup?

KG
dpe666
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Quote:
On 2011-03-21 12:32, yin_howe wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-03-21 05:10, yin_howe wrote:
Dear All,

Are there other CnB routines/sources of CnB routines that uses 3 different colored balls, other then the following:

1. Tri-Color CnB by Leo Leslie, De Courcy and Aldo Colombini
2. Fun Shop CnB by Kent Gunn

I'm trying to create a tri-color routine for myself.

Thanks to all in advance

3. Devlin CnB by David Devlin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a03x6hgFAws Smile
plungerman
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Irv Weiner had a sponge ball routine using three different colored sponges. Don't have it but thought you might like to know.
Michael Baker
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Hi Kent,

Your routine supplies good answers to many of the problems posed. Two points worth note...

1) The original placement of balls under the cups, reiterates which ball is where. The colors chosen and the ORDER named (red, white & blue) is already well-known, so recall is natural. If anything might further simplify this for the spectator, it would be to work from THEIR left, to right.

2) The movement is all at once, so the mental selection is 50/50, rather than 1 in 3 (balls are separated vs together).

From there, you are mostly dealing with 2 balls per phase, and colors become irrelevant, except in retro thought for the purpose of deconstruction. At that point, anyone with only the basic C&B ball knowledge can't find a hook to hang their hat upon.

The length of the routine and the narrowed focus help sthis to work. Hopefully though, you can understand my original concern that it would be very easy to over-complicate such a routine. Many magicians muddy their canvases by working them too much.

Kudos that you didn't! Smile
~michael baker
The Magic Company
funsway
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There are soem routines with three colored object that could be blended in to an intor, ending or central diversion to an known rouitne like Aldo's == for example the Three Dice routine publishe din teh Linking Rings last fall "Diception??" It I sa 2 in hnad ... type effetc with three different colored dice.

This way you could have an inpressively innovative routine without having to reinvent the "ball"
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
kentfgunn
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Michael,

First, thanks for the kudos. I appreciate it.

I worked out major parts of that routine while in Japan. My mind was working in right to left mode. Now after thousands of run-throughs the sequence is literally stuck in my head. As you can guess the blocking for that routine, due to some arcane tools used, is rather complicated. For me to not have to think about the blocking, when performing, those balls are going to be blue, white and red, as the audience sees them, for a long time.

Your commments/concerns about over complicating the routine are so important. Many cups and balls routines I've seen, even with a single color for the balls lose me. What worked for me, in duration was to hang every sequence on a load. Once the cups were full, it was obviously time to get off stage.

Oh, before I forget, Michael, you make some of the most beautiful magic props I've ever seen!

David,

I'm glad you posted that routine again. Not enough people have seen it. You took a completely different path to solving the problems associated with a multi-color routine. It really flows.

Funsway,

I don't know if you've seen this. It is yet another three-colored object routine. For a while I was using it as an intro to the cups and balls. Seemed to make the entire event too long, putting them side-by-side.

I apologize for the lecture/rambling introduction beforehand.
I like the the phrase, "reinventing the ball".

KG
funsway
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I viewed the one refered above -- thanks for that. And it seems to me that before the reveal of the final loads you could say, "I have been using the cups to train the balls in how to behave. Let's see if they are magiciated." Now you do a three colored 2 in hand effect, ending with a vansih. Now, "You are probably thinking that the balls have retruned to those cups -- let's see. Wow! I guess the cups are magic too."

or something. Of course this longer routine woul dnot be appropriate for all audiences.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Michael Baker
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Kent,

Now see, you approached this the right way. Realizing that the loads are the ultimate goals, prompted you to look for the shortest path. But at the the same time, the smoke had to be pleasant to the senses, and not an overly thick fog that clouds the playing field. As I was alluding to earlier, you kept these simple in concept and clarity. It was easy to follow. This alone can be hard enough to achieve in any routine, without imagining the logistics of a tri-color routine complicating YOUR end of things.

The loads were handled well. I had to watch twice to even stand a chance. Smile

The left to right vs right to left sequencing was a minor point that I thought could further take advantage of every American kid's knowledge by rote learning of "the red, white & blue" (even though your color order did). I understand your expanation, and hope I didn't offend.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
kentfgunn
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Ken (Funsway),

My patter, taken from the Magic Shop thema is locked in. I don't have the personality to pull off any sort of anthropomorphic references toward the cups. Your fantasy-based themes simply wouldn't work for me. I'm not a teller of fairy tales or esoteric references. I appreciate the sensibilities and themes of others though.

Michael,

Several people have raised the sequence, vis-a-vis red/white/blue reference. The observation is a good one. It's just come to my attention to late to fix it! I certainly would NEVER take offense when people are making constructive criticisms. I welcome any and all criticism. I won't always agree, I will always listen. How can one grow if you don't realize the opinions and thoughts of others are signposts on the path to improvement?

The two in the hand/one in the pocket routine I referenced is here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jq0sIIb3q4

I actually am no longer happy with it. I have to pull the vaguely sexual/anthropomorphic references from the patter. I've a sailor's foul mouth and I need to clean that up!

To all,

Go here:

http://www.themagiccompany.com/cat_main.html

Scroll down until you get to the pictures of beautiful Okito-style magic creations. For those who don't know, it's an introduction to the truly wonderful magic made by Mr. Michael Baker. His creations are throw-backs to a better time. I doubt any of the items pictured are available. If they are . . . you could have a piece of magic from a forgotten era.


As always,

I digress,

KG
Bill Palmer
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Really nice stuff, Michael.

@Kent --

Don't bowdlerize your material too much -- your "sailor's mouth" adds a lot to the presentation.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
funsway
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PLease keep digressing
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Michael Baker
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Kent,

The three ball routine is very good. Re: "sailor's mouth" - whether tri-color, or off color, I still have to respect a man with three. Smile

Thanks for the kind words!

~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Vayron
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Check out Christian Chelman's work ("the curator" on the magic Café)

He has a wonderful routine with 3 different colored balls. Although I don't think the routine is published in English.
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