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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Getting a Bowl Engraved (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Donal Chayce
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Similar to the Sherwood engraved cups and other engraved cups I've seen, I'd like to have the RnT2 brass bowl I use for my Benson Bowl routine ornately engraved. Does anyone know of a manufacturer who would be willing to take on such a task?

(And before someone responds with "why don't you just purchase an engraved brass bowl?", let me say that the RnT2 bowl, which is specifically designed for the trick, allows for a larger final load then pretty much any other "real" brass bowl of the same size will allow.)
Pete Biro
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FIND a western artist that engraves knives. Like this guy....

http://jtcengraving.com/
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Bill Palmer
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Jake might be able engrave these things. If the metal isn't fairly thick, you might not want to have it engraved, though.

However, there is another engraver you might check with. His name is Sam Alfano. He is one of the best.
http://www.masterengraver.com/
"The Swatter"

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ekins
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That's a cool website. Donal, you can get some instructional videos, take a class, and buy and engraver and do it yourself. Smile

-Brian
djkuttdecks
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Now that I think of it, I'm surprised that no one has done this recently.
-Lee
lint
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I've thought off and on over the years about taking some engraving classes. I don't trust myself enough though.

Image
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
Pete Biro
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Donal... what are the dimensions of your bowl?
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Donal Chayce
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Thanks for the leads, guys. It's very much appreciated.

My goal is to give my nondescript looking bowl a more exotic appearance and solidify the idea that it was a holy man's begging bowl. Which (engraving or embossing would be most practical for my needs? BTW--for the record, I don't own a set of Sherwood engraved cups...or any other Sherwood cups, for that matter.

Pete: The bowl is 5" wide at the mouth, 2.5" tall and has an interior height of 2.4375". It was spun from .050 brass. The one I use has a forced, dark brown patina; I also have a second, matching bowl (except for the patina) that I bought a few months later as a backup. Neither has a mirror finish. Why do you ask?
Thomas Wayne
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Donal,

Embossing is usually done during manufacture, and I'm not sure if your bowl is "spun", in which case it might need to be annealed first to soften the metal - failure to do so would risk fracturing the metal during embossing. On the other hand, engraving might very well look too rich, as most "holy man beggar bowls" would almost certainly be embellished through embossing, repousse, or other "low-end" technique. Think about the kinds of brass ornamental cups, vases, candle-holders you see at Pier 1 Imports and you'll know what I mean.

That said, it will probably be easiest to find an engraver, and he/she can probably emulate the look you want...

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Pete Biro
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I ask as I have a few "holy man" begging bowls... need to check the size and... (see pm).
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Donal Chayce
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Thank you Thomas--much obliged.
Bill Palmer
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I do ad work for a banjo company that produces instruments that have engraved hardware. Our engraver is an "old school" guy, who uses hand tools only.* His analysis of the Sherwood cups was that the lines are cut and the background is "chased." Chasing is a process in which a stamping tool is struck against the metal.

It is a perfectly acceptable part of the engraving process. The chasing of a background does not negate the fact that the lines are engraved.

*Note: Many modern engravers, such as my friend Sam Alfano, use a powered graver to remove metal very quickly. It speeds up the process.
"The Swatter"

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epoptika
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If I am not mistaken embossing is only used on quite thin metals. Pressure is applied on the back of the metal to form a raised pattern on the front. I wouldn't think it would be a suitable process for cups made of a thicker gage metal. I have never held a Sherwood cup but if I were to make a guess, just from the photos on Brett's site, I would say they were primarily decorated by chasing which, as Bill has pointed out is a process where a chisel like tool is driven with a hammer, by hand, around the metal surface. There used to be a middle-eastern metal worker at Busch Gardens in Tampa who did very ornate decorations on copper and brass bowls, vases, etc. with chasing tools with the end result looking very much like the work on a Sherwood cup. Metal stamping is a very different process from chasing - the stamping tool, with decorative design, is struck once against the metal to transfer the design from the tool onto the metal surface. A chasing or engraving tool moves over the surface of the metal . A metal stamp makes a one time imprint when it is struck. Other than the little 6-petal floral imprints on the copper cups and the tiny little circles/dots used for background decoration I would guess most of the work was done with chasing. Just my two cents. I could be wrong.

You might check the arts & crafts community out there. I'm sure there must be numerous artists who do metal chasing. It might be more in keeping with a "beggars bowl" look as others have suggested.

Posted: Mar 25, 2011 1:19am
http://wn.com/chasing_(metalworking)
Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2011-03-25 01:08, epoptika wrote:
If I am not mistaken embossing is only used on quite thin metals. Pressure is applied on the back of the metal to form a raised pattern on the front. [...]


Unfortunately, you are mistaken in much of what you've written - especially with your misunderstanding of the "chasing" technique. For example, applying pressure to back side of the metal, thereby forming a raised pattern on the front, is known as "repousse" (not "chasing") - and what you refer to as "chasing" is actually known as engraving. Here's a link that may help clarify some of these techniques:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repouss%C3%A9_and_chasing

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Pete Biro
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I have solved Donal's problem by giving him a bowl that appears to be stamped and engraved or etched or something .... it is from Nepal and is silver and gold. Smile
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cupsandballsmagic
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Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
:applause: Smile Smile Smile Smile
epoptika
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Sounds like a great bowl. Was it, perchance, a Nepalese "singing bowl"?
Pete Biro
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Not a singing bowl. Part of a set of offering bowls.

You can see demo of a move at http://www.petebiro.com clik on "MOVES AND TIPS" scroll to Rezvani vanish.

It is stamped in the gold section and the silver area is hand scratched?

See attahed photo.

Click here to view attached image.
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epoptika
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Very nice. I have a very small one, suitable for Indian cups & balls, that is nearly identical.

For anyone who is interested, here are a couple links to copper and brass items decorated with the metal-chasing technique I referred to. The same technique that was used by the fellow at Busch Gardens. His work was, needless to say, not of quite the same high quality as these items at Sotheby's. Looks very much like the decorative work on the Sherwood cups.

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/Lot......59663291
http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/Lot......59657294
lint
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Why won't Brett chime in here and just explain exactly what he orders done to his cups?
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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