The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Shawn Farquhar & Russ Stevens » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
russ stevens
View Profile
Special user
Russ Stevens
571 Posts

Profile of russ stevens
Hi Jonathan,

The horse was dug up by Shawn Farquhar.

I'm still bemused as to why he did that interview and started it all again? Maybe his good friend Tim Ellis can explain and give some personal insight? By the way Tim, I just love the way you're trying and turn this into a Russ Stevens/Blackpool 2012 issue on the Genii forum. I also thought the way Ricahrd Kaufman opened the thread again for you, just so that you could make your last post before locking again, was very revealing. You know full well this has nothing to do with FISM. He can keep his award because that's not of interest to me. My issue, as you know, is in the lie. Sadly the interview he gave just produced more of them. The devil is in the detail you know.

Best,
Russ
r1ch-oxford
View Profile
Regular user
Oxford, England
153 Posts

Profile of r1ch-oxford
A couple of years ago I picked up the phone and called Russ Stevens to ask permission to use a song in my show which I had first heard when I had watched him perform an illusion to it a few months earlier. He gave me his full blessing with no questions asked.

None of the lies were ever necessary; Russ would possibly have done the same thing if Shawn had picked up the phone in 1994 / 95 / 96 or whatever year it was. Almost all of us take inspiration from other magicians work, just be honest about it and no one can accuse you of anything.

Rich
Tony Curtis
View Profile
Inner circle
United Kingdom
1528 Posts

Profile of Tony Curtis
As Russ Stevens has stated earlier he did not wish to bring up the subject again but as Shawn Farquhar has recently recorded an interview for Reel Magic he had to speak again to protect his own integrity.

http://vimeo.com/21590468

Tony Curtis
Tim Ellis
View Profile
V.I.P.
Melbourne, Australia
1224 Posts

Profile of Tim Ellis
Russ. I made my comment on Genii because you brought my name up in your reply to Shawn Farquhar. I was trying to offer you guys a way to resolve this. If you don't want to take that course of action that's fines with me.

I don't like or appreciate the inferences you're making that I have anything to do with this whole situation. Yes, I know Shawn. I also know several hundred other magicians (many of whom competed at FISM) equally well. How you have come to the conclusion that I can offer any insight into what Shawn said on the interview or why is beyond me. He lives in Canada, I live in Australia. We exchange emails two or three times a year and see each other in person at conventions every two years or so... Yet you seem adamant that I'm his great defender just because I don't agree 100% with what you have said about this situation.

I find it ironic that you are upset that Shawn didn't ask your permission to use Sting's song, yet you used Kozmo's interview without asking his permission.

I also find it ironic that your supporters keep falsely implying that it was his relationship with a judge that won him the FISM Grand Prix, yet in reality it's his relationship with a FISM 2012 organizer that will prevent him from being booked there.
Tony Curtis
View Profile
Inner circle
United Kingdom
1528 Posts

Profile of Tony Curtis
Quote:
On 2011-04-01 00:37, Tim Ellis wrote:
I find it ironic that you are upset that Shawn didn't ask your permission to use Sting's song, yet you used Kozmo's interview without asking his permission.

Tim,

It is not about Shawn asking if he can use Sting’s song but the concept idea of performing magic to the track which Russ originally came up with. Many singers and groups have done cover versions of other people’s songs but at least they do give credit which is all Russ wants.

Tony Curtis
mumford
View Profile
Special user
652 Posts

Profile of mumford
I don't have a dog in this fight, but the funny thing to me is who wouldn't think of using a song about cards for a card trick? As far as the presentation goes, I don't thing there is any genius at work here. I think it is Sting who should get the credit for both presentations.
markparker
View Profile
Veteran user
Singapore
350 Posts

Profile of markparker
Mumford maybe you would feel differently if it was you on the receiving end...Ie:if one of your pet routines had influenced another performer after watching your innovation at the time and you didn't get any credit. Russ had the vision to make his card manipulation routine fit the lyrics of this song when it was first released...Shawn saw the video of this at a much later date then created his routine using the same music and to this day claims he came up with the idea....what now seems like an inflamed situation could have been easily avoided if Shawn had spoke to Russ about his direction after watching the demo reel...it's never been a huge deal just a matter of common courtesy in our small fraternity...from one performer to another.

This thread is not about preferences to the choice of which routine or if they are 'genuis' just the response to the recent stirring up by SF.

Thanks

Mark
http://www.illusion-designer.com - Bespoke Illusion design - Publications -Show consultancy....Vivify a collection of stage illusions limited edition of 500 copies available now.
Tim Ellis
View Profile
V.I.P.
Melbourne, Australia
1224 Posts

Profile of Tim Ellis
Tony: This thread is already confusing, so I appreciate you bringing it back in line.

Other people on this thread have said that if Shawn had asked Russ permission to do an act to Sting's song, Russ would have "given his blessing".

That's why I thought that was the issue now.


1 - At first (back in 2009) accusations were being made that Shawn had ripped off Russ's act and, as such, should be stripped of his FISM awards. Accusations were being made that he only won because I was a judge, and "Tim is trying to cover his #ss" after realising Shawn was a "copycat". (Please note, I have served on three FISM Juries. If I was considered in any way biased I would have only ever served on one).

2 - Then I was given the impression that Russ felt that Shawn had taken his theatrical premise.

I've read email exchanges where Russ says directly to Shawn "I know that we've simply had the same presentational idea. In fact when a few people first told me of yours, I checked out what you were doing and found it to be obviously different to the extent that a rip-off wouldn't do."

Since then Russ has clarified that he wrote that statement before he was told by a third party that Shawn had lied to him and had seen Russ's routine in 1994.

I can certainly understand that Russ feels deceived.

I agree that Russ performed his routine first - the evidence is clear and history will record that fact.

I don't know if Shawn saw Russ's act - it's one word against another, and we'll probably never know - but if he did, I'm really not exactly sure what Russ would like... I assume (and correct me if I'm wrong Russ) he'd just like Shawn to admit it? As Tony said "they do give credit, which is all Russ wants."


There is also the possibility that Shawn didn't see the act, in which case he probably won't admit it.

If he did, and won't admit it, then that would be a pretty sad way to live.


We can postulate all we want, but please don't present opinions and theories as facts.






Mumford: I agree with you. In fact I wrote a card routine to the song when it came out in 1993 and gave it to Barry Govan to perform. He never did it, but I was inspired by hearing the song and never seeing Russ yet the act I created had a very similar theatrical presentation.
russ stevens
View Profile
Special user
Russ Stevens
571 Posts

Profile of russ stevens
Hello Tim,

Thank you for the reply.

Please remember in all of this, from day one, I have never deviated from what I originally said in 2009. I've stuck by what I've said 100% throughout this whole thing. This issue has only started again because Shawn Farquhar decided to bring it all up again and make statements that you and I know are not true. He knows what my issue is with my tape (him viewing it in 1994) and yet when asked multiple times, he just give BS answers mocking me. I wonder why?

Tim, as you know, you were the guy that I originally contacted for advice as someone that was against this kind of thing. That was a mistake as you were a judge and also a friend of Shawn Farquhars, which I didn't know. Before I heard back from you, you were on your blog telling people to not listen to all this nonsense about his win, despite having my long letter laying out my case. Biased? Of course you were, your response showed that, from day one.

If anyone had heard that music and decided to do a routine to it, without seeing mine, of course no problem. That is obvious isn't it? With Shawn Farquhar that is not the case. I note that despite the 'obvious' nature of the song, there have been very few professionals that have used the track themselves, which I would guess is because Shawn Farquhar spent quite a few years claiming it as 'his'. They respected that he was supposedly there first, so didn't use the track and it's a shame he didn't show the same respect to me. You even once wrote that you'd heard the track and worked out a routine (I assume the one mentioned above for Barry Govan), but after seeing Shawn you stepped back and didn't do it. That is the right thing to do. That is more than can be said for Shawn Farquhar. I have one email from him to another magician with a 'cease and desist' threat about what he could do regarding their work for the cruise line they were on at the time. He has been very proactive in stopping people from using that music, even when they confirmed that he wasn't the inspiration (in that case I was).

Yes, it is ironic that two years later I find myself as FISM 2012 assistant convention organizer. Karma.

I don't find it ironic that I used Kozmo's footage, as it was wrong to publish that interview like he did and was extremely relevant to my reply. Kozmo and I have discussed this and he accepts it was a mistake too, because he didn't know the history. He fully understands why I did what I did, which I address in my talk at the start. Funnily enough I knew that people like you would try and use that against me (which is why I addressed it). Maybe I can read your mind, or maybe I know what your agenda is as one of his supporters. That's fine and I accept that, but please don't try and make out you're on the fence when you've been behind him all the way.

I don't want anything from Shawn Farquhar. I just want people to know the truth. The reason this thread and others were started, was because he did that interview and new points were made by him that were incorrect. In doing this, people have watched my video statement and pointed out inconsistencies in his detailed talk about him watching the 'Leon' movie for the first time, plus incorrect dates etc. That is what this and the other threads are about, the new information that he choses to put out there. That is why it's being discussed again.

Best,
Russ

PS - Just watched the link to the Cardini act that you put up on Youtube. Now there's a performer that makes us all look like beginners. Genius. I get your point with the music and how 'obvious' it is, but that's not my point as you well know. Well done though, although I do prefer his original music personally!
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
I have a question.This song that is in question, who actually owns the song? And do Russ and Shawn have legal rights to use it? Since no one has asked this question yet, I thought I would.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
russ stevens
View Profile
Special user
Russ Stevens
571 Posts

Profile of russ stevens
Oh dear..... Does anyone really have to answer that?

Best,
Russ
mumford
View Profile
Special user
652 Posts

Profile of mumford
Here's your answer Russ/Gospel. Some professional magicians here in the USA pay an ASCAP or BMI fee annually that allows them to use any copyrighted music. My guess is that most magicians do not do this and technically speaking they are not in compliance. Any public venue, like a theater, club, casino, etc. usually pay a similar annual fee that covers anyone that performs at their venue.
markmiller
View Profile
Special user
731 Posts

Profile of markmiller
In the UK same as the US, it is illegal to use copyrighted material - such as a song - with out permission from the copyright holder or publishing company. Think how ironic it would be if a discussion about who got the idea from who to use this song would be if, in fact, neither party had legal permission to use the song in the first place. Shawn, Russ?
SHOC
View Profile
New user
Las Vegas, NV
72 Posts

Profile of SHOC
Another Lie?

In the Reel Magic Quarterly clip Mr Far claims he first heard the song when rented the movie Leon 1n 1994. He said that he and his wife "would rent videos and usually the were subtitled...and we would turn off the subtitles, and we make up our own words for the story."

Back in 1994, they would have been renting VHS video tapes. You cannot shut off subtitles on a video tape like you can with DVD disc. The truth eludes me here.
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3024 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
It's possible that he's referring to closed captioning...? Don't know of any VHS tapes that would have subtitles in CC, but it's possible to turn CC on and off via an option within the TV menu.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Donal Chayce
View Profile
Inner circle
1770 Posts

Profile of Donal Chayce
Quote:
On 2011-04-01 11:22, mumford wrote:
Here's your answer Russ/Gospel. Some professional magicians here in the USA pay an ASCAP or BMI fee annually that allows them to use any copyrighted music. My guess is that most magicians do not do this and technically speaking they are not in compliance. Any public venue, like a theater, club, casino, etc. usually pay a similar annual fee that covers anyone that performs at their venue.


Actually, that's only partially correct. There are three music licenses at play here, only one of which is typically administered by ASCAP, BMI or SESAC in the U.S. and SOCAN in Canada. That license is a "Public Performance License" which allows an individual to perform a copyrighted composition live or play a recording of the composition in a public venue. As you correctly noted, sometimes the public venue has blanket licenses in place with ASCAP/BMI/SESAC, but not always.

The next license needed is a "Synchronization License", which permits an individual to use a copyrighted composition in synchronization with another type of public performance or entertainment; e.g., as background music in a TV show or movie, coming out of a radio in a live stage play, etc. That license is typically administered by the music publisher, although in the case of synch licenses for use in a magic routine, the publisher may request that the individual negotiate the sync license directly with the copyright holder (generally the composer and, if applicable, the lyricist). That was the case with respect to a song from an Off-Broadway musical that I licensed for use in one of my routines.

Finally, if the individual wants to use a copyrighted recording of the composition (such as the "Shape of My Heart" recording in question), then a "Master Use Licnese" is also required. Typically the applicable record label negotiates and issues this license.

Even if each venue in which Mr. Stevens and Mr. Farquhar have performed their respective routines had blanket public performance licenses in place, if either gentleman failed to also secure a sync license from the publisher/copyright holder and/or a master use license from the music company that put out the recording, then he has violated U.S. and Canadian copyright laws. If that's the case, then I concur with a previous poster that the complaints of at least one party directly involved in this conflict are rather ironic.
mumford
View Profile
Special user
652 Posts

Profile of mumford
Donal thanks for the detailed clarification. I also agree with the "ironic" comment. So, Russ and/or Shawn, do you have a legal right to use the music?
Andrew Zuber
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
2644 Posts

Profile of Andrew Zuber
Keep in mind that, as this routine has been performed on television, no network executive in their right mind is going to air footage without making sure they have the proper licenses to do so.

Watch Masters of Illusion sometime and listen to the incredibly cheesy music being used. That's the sound of the network saving big bucks by going with a cheaper source. Many of the routines shown (for instance, Tony Clark's card manipulations) are normally accompanied by a different piece of music.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
SHOC
View Profile
New user
Las Vegas, NV
72 Posts

Profile of SHOC
When this issue first came to light a couple of years back, why didn't Mr. Farquhar mention anything about having first heard the song when he watched the movie Leon? I do not recall him saying anything about Leon. Now, suddenly, two years later he raises this for the first time. I find this very curious.
Gordyboy
View Profile
Loyal user
British Columbia, Canada
216 Posts

Profile of Gordyboy
SHOC - you need to re-read old posts. In the thread indicated at the beginnning of this thread, the first post by Shawn (posted Aug 6, 2009) says:

"I discovered the song on a video of the movie Leon which was sometime in the Spring of 1995. I did not see the movie in a theatre but rented the video."

So he has not now raised it "for the first time", and you are out of line with that comment and only adding to the inaccuracies in all of this.

Here's the original thread, in which Shawn has supplied a reasonable explanation for every accusation thrown at him... http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0
The Great Gordini

http://www.MagicCanada.ca
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Shawn Farquhar & Russ Stevens » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL