The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Shawn Farquhar & Russ Stevens » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
Donal Chayce
View Profile
Inner circle
1770 Posts

Profile of Donal Chayce
Quote:
On 2011-04-06 19:54, dfield wrote:
Donal - happy to explain in a thread on copyright music as we both realize it's nothing to do with this thread but is something that should be talked about. I don't know if any magic magazines have tackled that issue but would make a good article.


Thanks. I'll initiate such a thread tomorrow--I need to log off for tonight.
Tim Ellis
View Profile
V.I.P.
Melbourne, Australia
1224 Posts

Profile of Tim Ellis
Mantel "Fast forward to July Cyril Takayama does a card manipulation version of "Shape of My Heart at the Essential Magic Conference."

I think you'll find that Cyril performed that act as early as 1997 in the FISM competition.
russ stevens
View Profile
Special user
Russ Stevens
571 Posts

Profile of russ stevens
Ah yes, Cyril Takayama, FISM 1997.

I too watched his performance on the Essential Magic Conference DVDs with great interest.

Now here’s an interesting set of coincidences for you Tim:

In 1995 I appeared at The Blackpool Magic Convention Sunday Night Gala Show with my full illusion show, including the ‘Shape of my Heart’ routine. Also there was one of my favorite card manipulators Mahka Tendo, whose act I of course greatly admired. After the show, he came up to me and in very broken English commented about how much he loved the presentation for my card routine. This has always stuck in my mind, because coming from him it was such an amazing compliment. Two years later Cyril Takayama performs his version at FISM.

Now fast forward to last years Essential Magic Conference where Cyril did his version. His whole introduction was about his friend and mentor Mahka Tendo (who as many will know, is sadly no longer with us) and just what a great guy and teacher he was. He dedicated this routine to him. I always wondered if Cyril had created that routine and not seen mine, which we’ve already discussed is of course possible. There were, yet again, some strange similarities in framing and staging and the theatrical finish was exactly the same. In my routine I ‘blow out’ the follow spot and in his, he switches off the lamp beside his table to a snap B/O. Exactly the same finish. This is not the first time this has been done in a routine, but it isn’t the most obvious finish to that music or routine. I guess only Cyril can answer the question as to weather he had seen my version or if Mahka had told him about me, or that he’d independently created it himself.

I did email Cyril after his FISM appearance, but never received a response back. It’s an interesting story though and one day, maybe I’ll be able to ask Cyril.

Best,
Russ
cairo
View Profile
Veteran user
398 Posts

Profile of cairo
Russ, I'm curious, if Cyril denies hearing about your version from Tendo - what will your reponse be?
russ stevens
View Profile
Special user
Russ Stevens
571 Posts

Profile of russ stevens
Hello Cairo,

If that's the case and he came up with the routine independently on his own, I of course have no problem.

Best,
Russ
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
Do you believe it's coincidences, or are you alleging that Mahka Tendo told Cyril about your routine?

Also, I'm just wondering if there is any chance we can know what types of licenses you have had for the song Shape Of My Heart. The reason why I ask is to get a better understanding of the situation. Not too many people are asking a lot of questions, just making accusations. I'm just looking for more information since you have made yourselve available on the Café to discuss this. I'd ask Shawn the same question but he's no where to be found. Smile
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Tony Curtis
View Profile
Inner circle
United Kingdom
1528 Posts

Profile of Tony Curtis
Quote:
On 2011-04-08 01:32, Gospel Dan wrote:
I'm just wondering if there is any chance we can know what types of licenses you have had for the song Shape Of My Heart. The reason why I ask is to get a better understanding of the situation. Not too many people are asking a lot of questions, just making accusations. I'm just looking for more information since you have made yourselve available on the Café to discuss this. I'd ask Shawn the same question but he's no where to be found. Smile

There is a new thread started to discuss music copyright if you so wish.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=177&2

Tony Curtis
russ stevens
View Profile
Special user
Russ Stevens
571 Posts

Profile of russ stevens
Gospel Dan,

Are you actually really reading my posts properly? I'm not alleging anything at all, just pointing out some possibilities including the one that Cyril could have created his version independently too. Only he can answer that though and as he ignored my email at the time, right now I don't know.

I've answered your music copyright question already and it applies to live performances too.

Best,
Russ
Dan Bernier
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
2298 Posts

Profile of Dan Bernier
Tony, I am already there.(lol)

Russ, yes, I am actually reading your posts. No, you haven't really answered any question about if you have full legal rights to use the music, and not just perfomance rights. And, yes it does sound like you are insinuating that Cyril stole your routine. You say you are pointing out the possibilities, clearly one of those possibilities you believe is that Mahka Tendo may have told Cyril about your routine and then Cyril stole it from you.

I think it`s only fair to post a video of Shawn`s routine and your routine so people can see them both. I`m sorry Russ, but Shawn`s routine is beautiful, yours, not so much. I do see similiarities, but the similiarities have to do with the song calling for hearts, diamonds, etc. If Shawen is lying about his story them shame on him.

Just to be clear, I have not taken any sides on this.

Shawn is not around to be questioned, and that`s why I am asking you the questions. If you are going to make this whole thing public expect that some people might actually have the common sense enough to ask questions before making conclusions.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Tony Curtis
View Profile
Inner circle
United Kingdom
1528 Posts

Profile of Tony Curtis
Quote:
On 2011-04-08 09:58, Gospel Dan wrote:
Shawn is not around to be questioned, and that`s why I am asking you the questions. If you are going to make this whole thing public expect that some people might actually have the common sense enough to ask questions before making conclusions.

Shawn Farquhar made it public again with his Reel Magic interview not Russ Stevens so please get your facts correct.

Tony Curtis
Andrew Zuber
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
2644 Posts

Profile of Andrew Zuber
This issue is not, and has never been, about performance rights of the music. That's a completely different topic and isn't relevant to what's been happening here. No one is accusing anyone of not having the legal rights necessary to use the music in the routine. A thousand people could have the legal right to be using this song, that's not the problem. The problem is that Shawn (in my opinion) has lied about how he was exposed to the song and what inspired his routine.

Videos of both routines have been posted in other threads. Russ could have created the ugliest routine in magic (though he didn't.) Which routine is "better" makes no difference...that's based on opinions. It's the "facts" that Shawn has provided that simply don't add up. I can't imagine what his reasoning was for bringing this issue back up again, but he and he alone threw the first punch. Russ simply responded.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
dfield
View Profile
New user
91 Posts

Profile of dfield
Gospel Dan - Please READ the posts before you answer them. The fact you are now comparing who you think routine is better than the other shows us you have very little knowledge about magic, performance, theatre and our craft. Actually the fact you are actually comparing the "tricks" really shows you lack understanding in our craft and it's for this reason and magic gets a bad rap.There are too many people who just see tricks as tricks and not Theatre. Russ created a great theatrical moment - it's the entire package - not just the trick. Russ created a great magical and theatrical moment with his original effect that has obviously been ripped off by others.

Gospel, you are missing the point on the entire issue with your posts about copyright - whose act you like etc and frankly wasting time on this thread because you haven't raised any issues that are relevant to this important thread. People are getting annoyed having to remind you after every post you make that this issue is about the fact Shawn Farquhar watched a tape of Russ Stevens in 1994 - took the theme, act, idea, concept etc. and started calling it his own. He did this WITHOUT asking permission from the creator.

Hopefully NOW you'll get the message and not bring up points that keep getting flamed down. Too many people are trying to get off the important topic that a GOLD MEDAL FISM WINNER took somebody else's concept, theme, creation and called it his own.

Posted: Apr 8, 2011 12:50pm
Gospel - rest assured Shawn IS around reading this - he knows what is being said on here. Don't think for a second he doesn't read this or have friends who haven't told him about it. What on earth can he say because he really said it all in his last interview (that Charlie Sheen moment). He now has to come up with an excuse why he fabricated that story in the interview and try and change dates etc.
He should be hanging his head in shame and licking his wounds.
natmagic
View Profile
Loyal user
USA
295 Posts

Profile of natmagic
Well said dfield!!

Let's keep this on topic please. It was AFTER ALL Shawn Farquhar who started this up again - he's obviously had time to come up with a story since he last went public on various chat groups and podcasts - what he showed us however in his latest interview was that his stories do not match and this can only lead us to the conclusion that he has not been telling the truth about where he got the idea for the FSIM act. People who supported him in the past seem to be now changing their opinions (Tim Ellis was one of his hot supporters when this started but he too seems to be changing his mind after the last interview came out).
cairo
View Profile
Veteran user
398 Posts

Profile of cairo
When the shoe was on the other foot a few years back with another rip-off, Russ Stevens proved to be an ethical stand-up guy. In that situation Russ produced a DVD for another well-known performer that contained a stolen routine. When that well-known performer was confronted, not unlike Shawn, he stuck to his guns and continued to lie. But Russ proved to be ethical and moral in that situation, taking the time and expense of recalling the DVD and excising the stolen material from the DVD. To me that says an awful lot about the integrity of Russ Stevens. I've used the term "well-known" to spare furher embarassment to Mel Mellers.
Tim Ellis
View Profile
V.I.P.
Melbourne, Australia
1224 Posts

Profile of Tim Ellis
Hi Natmagic, please don't speak on my behalf.

In the initial round of "discussion" http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0 Shawn was being attacked by a lot of people, many of whom seem to have misunderstood what Russ was saying and claimed that Shawn's routine was identical, a blatant copy, and he had conned the Jury, FISM and all of the Magic Community by doing another person's act.

"This IS a serious issue as we have a well known magician winning the biggest award in magic with a routine that he saw somebody else do, and is really taking us ALL FOR FOOLS."

If the roles had been reversed and the accusations made at Russ, I would have been defending him in this thread. If people were accusing Russ of stealing Shawn's routine, I'd be saying the two routines (other than the music and the fact they use cards) were quite different - as is Cyril's 'Shape of My Heart' act, and the one that I created back in 1993.


I'm certainly in favour of reasoned discussion on hot topics, but the attacks on Shawn were totally outrageous. Facts were being ignored and opinions presented as facts. I was being accused of being a biased FISM judge with several people saying that Shawn only won FISM because he was friends with me. Absolute rubbish! If I was a biased judge I would have only sat on the FISM Jury once, not three times!


Shawn's initial statement back then was:

"Russ I never claimed to performing to Sting's song for as long as you. I understand from our emails that you found the song on the CD which I believe came out in 1993. I discovered the song on a video of the movie Leon which was sometime in the Spring of 1995. I did not see the movie in a theatre but rented the video. This makes your discovery earlier than mine. What I have said repeatedly is that I found the music and created my routine independently and in fact years before I had ever even heard of you."

And yes, in the Reel Magic interview, he changed the date to 1994. Did he forget or was he trying to change his story? I have no idea. But it did sound like the interviewer was leading him saying "1994 was a very important year for you..."

Yes, I do agree it would have been better for Shawn to simply say "No comment", but it has demonstrated that this whole thing was never resolved back in 2009.


As Russ said in this current thread: "Please remember in all of this, from day one, I have never deviated from what I originally said in 2009. I've stuck by what I've said 100% throughout this whole thing. This issue has only started again because Shawn Farquhar decided to bring it all up again and make statements that you and I know are not true. He knows what my issue is with my tape (him viewing it in 1994) and yet when asked multiple times, he just give BS answers mocking me. I wonder why?"


So Natmagic, in summary:

* Russ' ONLY issue with Shawn is that in 2008 or 2009 he was told be a magician that he'd split the bill with Shawn Farquhar to dub Russ Stevens' promotional tape - which meant Shawn watched it in 1994 and chose to create a routine to the same music he saw Russ use:

To quote Russ from the original thread:(“In 1994 I was in England with Francis Martineau and Russ gave us a copy of his promo tape It was in pal.The conversion to NTSC at that time was more than I wanted to pay. So at a meeting a few months later ( could have been early 1995) I asked Shawn if he wanted to pay half; and we both ended up with a viewable copy.It is possible he had forgotten.I mean 14 years has passed”. - Reg Donnelly)

Shawn's response back then: (Reg had in the past traded me video tapes from the UK and Japan. These videos were usually FISM NHK or Wayne Dobson and Paul Daniel shows. I have no recollection of any promotional videos of any acts whatsoever. I have 100's of videos that I have collected, converted or traded and will say again that it makes no sense to me why I would have agreed to pay to have a video converted when I have my own conversion machine. Perhaps Reg is mistaken? I can't be the only magician he traded videos with at the time. Perhaps he is thinking of Matt Ridley who was an avid collector of magic videos and a great dove act. Reg and I are not friends, but we aren't adversaries either. He travels in a circle of magicians who for the most part do not like me, but I can't imaging his post was made with malice intent. However the questions does arise why didn't he contact me first, instead of Russ Stevens? Why did he confide in Matt Johnson, but not speak to me at all?)


* Until he was approached by Reg, Russ had accepted, as he has with Cyril, that it was independent creation.

* It's one person's word against another until the mystery magician speaks out.

* Back in 2009 I made just two posts about this issue on my blog. In one I compared the two acts, in the second I was responding to random idiotic comments appearing in forums and on two specific blogs. Comments like:

"that d##khead Farquhar who is so full of megalomaniacal s##t wins first prize. It was a pity prize, a mercy f##k. And unfortunately that grinning, presumptuous b#####d, got it."

"The contest was obviously rigged."

"I express all my so called “anger” to the judges at FISM overall. To me they (including Ellis) should be revoked as judges in the future. A proper card mechanic that understands the category should be in the chair as judges. In this case knowledge of history,sleights, and routine credit is a must."


But most of the attacks were directed at me:

"Ellis needs to just go away. He's the role model for most everything I loathe in the world of magic. Ellis was a judge and we all know he couldn't carry good magic if it had a handle on it. Fame by his own design, not from his peers."

"I'll say it again. Ellis was not the first to do a "card rap". Take it to the bank. Ellis was just the first to decide to make money on it."

"To err is human, but I really don’t think Ellis quite understands fully he should apologize officially to the public rather than try and make excuses. The judges made a poor choice this round….so be it. Life goes on. Problem is a theatrical piece that was done earlier by another was awarded a grand prize. He fxxked up and now should be a hypocrite to everyone. Peggy Sue, with Buddy Glasses and a cups and balls routine is indeed in the same realm as what Russ is pointing at."

etc, etc - you can read my post from 2009 here: http://magicunlimited.typepad.com/magic_......win.html

(Bear in mind, that MOST of those comments were being fed out, through a variety of aliases by the same 3 or 4 people, but it still hurts and - on the internet - it's a permanent record)


Shawn is a friend of mine, and I have chatted privately with Russ and hope that we can be friends too.


I'd love to see this issue resolved, but that comes down to Russ & Shawn, not us.
natmagic
View Profile
Loyal user
USA
295 Posts

Profile of natmagic
Tim - agree I'd love to see this resolved. The problem here is that RUSS has been trying to get it resolved - however Mr. Farquhar is the one that seems to want to keep it going - and until he actually acknowledges the error of his ways this will not be resolved. My theory now is that the reason Shawn keeps bringing it up is because his conscience is starting to eat at him. He can't leave it alone until he finally comes out of the closet and acknowledges the truth. Remember, we are talking about a GOLD MEDAL FISM act - I think Fred Kaps would turn over in his grave if he knew a GOLD MEDAL FISM winner was caught up in such a scandal.
Sadly the days of winning FISM are not what they used to be. Perhaps we should just let IMS give out their world awards and that will be all magicians need.
gjmagic
View Profile
Special user
UK
970 Posts

Profile of gjmagic
Quote:

Shawn is not around to be questioned, and that`s why I am asking you the questions. If you are going to make this whole thing public expect that some people might actually have the common sense enough to ask questions before making conclusions.

Yep, definitely not reading the other posts!

Gary Jones.

Quote:
And yes, in the Reel Magic interview, he changed the date to 1994. Did he forget or was he trying to change his story? I have no idea. But it did sound like the interviewer was leading him saying "1994 was a very important year for you..."

Shawn didn't forget Tim, he changed his story. He also added "the little extras" to "confirm" his story. As I mentioned in a previous post, once it's on video or in an email it's permanent, if at a later date you decide to change your story you must remember that the previous info is there to make comparisons with. If you just stick to the facts the story never changes, if you change the facts the story changes considerably!

Gary Jones.
MIMC Gold Star

www.garyjonesmagic.com

gary@garyjonesmagic.com

DVDs/Effects; The Unknown - iCandy - More iCandy 1 & 2 - Dupes - 52 0n 1 Project - 74% Self Working - Flying Tonight - Pocket This - 6 Pack Coins - 6 Pack Cards - Thought Wave - Noted - Duality - Live Lecture Vol 1 - Pseudo Pickpocket - iContact - Shock Twist - Thought of Cards Across Plus - Touched - Colour Diffusion - Look No Hands Wayne Dobson - Automata - Box Pad - No Frills Lecture Notes 1 & 2 - The Ammo - Double Cross - Initial Here - Automata 2 - Black Market - Trick Soup - Automata 3 - Penguin Live Lecture - Upper Hand - Cartoon Capers - Life's a Beach Vol 1.
Tim Ellis
View Profile
V.I.P.
Melbourne, Australia
1224 Posts

Profile of Tim Ellis
To be pedantic Gary, you are correct, he changed his story for 1995 to 1994.

My point was I don't know for sure if it was intentional or accidental.

On the other hand, are you saying that you know with absolute certainty that he didn't forget or make a mistake, but he did intentionally change his story?

I'm not setting out to defend Shawn here, just to point out that people seem to be willing to present an opinion (ie: Shawn decided to change his story) as a fact. You or I cannot possibly know the real reason for the change.

I'll give Russ credit for being honest in telling his side of the story because he is able to back it up with hard facts.

That only leaves two possible options:

1 - Reg is telling the truth and he showed Shawn the video - thus Shawn is lying
2 - Reg is lying or mistook Shawn for another magician he swapped videos with - thus Shawn is telling the truth

But unless some hard facts surface everything else is just hearsay and opinion.
Tony Curtis
View Profile
Inner circle
United Kingdom
1528 Posts

Profile of Tony Curtis
Shawn Farquhar’s recent interview with Reel Magic is now what is in question as his statement of facts can’t be changed.

Tony Curtis
russ stevens
View Profile
Special user
Russ Stevens
571 Posts

Profile of russ stevens
Hello Tim,

As already stated, on a basic level Shawn Farquhar lied several times during that interview when asked why I did what I originally did. He knows what my problem with him is, the fact that he saw my promo tape and then lied to me for years after the fact. Yet he gave many other reasons in that interview. Jealousy, the difference between Silver and Gold, the tallest tree catches the wind, maybe I felt I was losing a part of me, etc. He knows these are complete and utter lies. Now if he can do that so blatantly after all that has happened, does that not tell you something about the real Shawn Farquhar? I also know that he has spoken to Reg Donnelly and still Reg refuses to back down about the situation. Remember, Reg and I have always stuck to what we've originally said throughout this whole affair. Sadly the same can't be said about Shawn Farquhar.

Best,
Russ

Posted: Apr 9, 2011 12:35am
By the way. Here's another slight inconsistency in his story about that video tape. During his recent Reel Magic Interview, Shawn Farquhar makes much about how broke he was at the time and yet his main defense regarding Reg Donelly and he splitting the cost of converting my PAL promo tape was that he had a standards conversion machine. He points out that he kept the VHS video to practice with (running up a bill that he even remembers the actual amount for!) as he couldn't even afford a cassette player (the CD was released in 1993). Yet he did have a standards conversion machine, which way back then would have been expensive to say the least. Strange that isn't it?
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Shawn Farquhar & Russ Stevens » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.3 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL