|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
Benji Bruce Special user 930 Posts |
I'm only interested in whether or not the photo is effective. If it sells, then I use it. Clients do not see Hot Spots and have no idea what those are (neither do I). It doesn't have to be perfect, it has to be effective.
|
|||||||||
tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Nice pics Benji - and they work for you, which is great.
I busted my bottom a lot of years to get where I am now. Along the way, I got "free" photos and paid pros who did a "good" job. I designed my own web site and created my own promo materials. I worked enough to support a family and buy a home. It can be done. I understand cutting corners when someone can't afford to properly promote their business. I'm not knocking anyone who does it themselves, but I am trying to educate them. It reflects on you. The point of this thread was two fold - to give a perfect example of what a good designer can do and to encourage others to step up their game. I researched and went to pros who I knew would do a great job. I paid them what they asked knowing I would get the results I expected. One corporate show more than pays for the investment, but the site and promo will continue to produce. So far, the results have been incredible. I wish I had made the investment 20 years ago. Feel free to use my hindsight people! Tom |
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-07 14:23, Benji Bruce wrote: Just because a person does not know what a double lift is, does not mean they can't spot a bad one. Same with photos. Hot spots are an inherant problem with photographs and so is bad lighting. People may not be able to put their finger on what exactly is wrong, but they certainly know something IS wrong. You say that the pics work. GREAT! But could they work better for you? Yes I think they could. Do teh clients see hot spots? OH YEA!h You are dismissing professional photographers with a few sentences. This is about as smart as someone dismissing someone like yourself, a great entertainer, for someone who does a few tricks when he feels like it. You would never do that. There are HUGE advantages to hiring you as an entertainer over a guy who is just starting or a guy who does it when he gets the chance. You have worked hard at the nuances that make you a great entertainer. Same with a professional photographer. It is the exact same thing. Just because you can't spot the problems, does not mean they are not there. I think this also answers the question about what makes the photos PROFESSIONAL someone else asked. (An example of something not so good on the pics is the bright spot on your forehead in the pool shot pic.) Another thing just to mention. When you start to send this stuff to high dollar clients, THEY will know the difference and what hot spots are. They will be able to see bad lighting and terrible angles. Absolutely.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-07 12:49, Kent Messmer wrote: Kent, to answer your question; “So what makes them a PROFESSIONAL photographer? The fact that they charge for it?” Exactly, what makes a photographer a professional photographer is that the photographer is paid for his work; The question should be what makes them an experienced, artistic professional photographer that will be inspired and have the experience to be involved with every detail of the project. Imaginative in the type of lighting, experienced in avoiding hot spots; directing the position of the body down to hand placement; creative with exposure, not only of the subject, but the background, foreground and props. Kent, you are correct, everyone must start somewhere; and how does an inexperienced photographer become an experienced professional photographer? By doing what Benji suggests, free photos for modeling, practice and taking lots of photos. A professional that wants to experiment for fun can trade modeling for photos; he should not experiment for photos to use on the landing page of his web site just because he can get it free. A professional that can afford an experienced photographer should find one he can collaborate with to project a dynamic image In photography, like magic, you get what you pay for |
|||||||||
Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts |
*** I really don't know where to post this, but as we were talking about being a professional...***
If this is not the correct place please feel free to move it. I will also preface this by saying this is a vent! Recently one of our local magic club members has been trying to get into the business side of magic. (he states that he has been doing this for a long time??) Let me describe him for you. He used to come into my shop and purchase magic tricks. I have never really seen him do any of them, not even at our monthly IBM meetings. What I have seen, and I'm not trying to be mean, is less than polished. He loves to tell everyone that he is the TVP for our area. (yeah if you even know what that means) He took the week long Jeff McBride class in Vegas and now him and Jeff are best friends! Now because he has done this "he" is the professional! He even claims to have had a paid show on stage in Vegas, with a standing invitation to return?? He loves to drop names, Jeff this or Eugene that... He joined the Magic Castle (I don't think he has ever been there) and makes sure people know about that too. He also claims to be a "professor" of magic according to The Camelard College of Conjuring of Chemmis, what ever that is... Basically, he is a lot of talk, one thing that he does well. He is good at promoting magic. He has started The Montana Mystics, a group of guys and gals that like to show magic to everyone they see. Not a bad thing but some of them are really not ready to be out there yet. The problem is that if the people who see them think "this" is what magic is, then getting hired to do shows will be more difficult. He has listed himself on Gig Salad and who knows where else, even has some "reviews" posted there. I don't have a problem with this at all! Competition drives the market. But when they offer to do free shows to people who are willing to pay...! arrrrggg! He posted his vent on Facebook the other day because my son called him on this. My son is 29 and started working in my magic shop at age 14. he has done hundreds of shows in our party room over the years and I don't know how many beyond that. He is not a beginner. This guy insinuated that my son had no experience, no theater training other than public high school, (my son did not go to public school by the way) but he with his "Jeff McBride school, no offense to Jeff, his phony "professor" certificate, TVP status, IBM card, Magic Castle membership and his "let me show you a trick" experience, is the professional? Becoming a professional is more than getting paid. But please have a show, have some talent. Many people start out doing free or reduced price shows to get experience, we all had to start somewhere. But don't put yourself out there as a professional at the get go. In the long run it will be bad for magic and for you. Join a magic club, drive your friends and family crazy showing them new stuff (after you have practiced it more than one time), once you have an effect down try it out in public and then refine it. I don't have it all right. Many of you know my web site is not up to snuff. But I've seen some pretty good promotional material out there where the promoted one is not what has been promoted. I really don't want or expect a response to this post, it is just a ranting vent. |
|||||||||
Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Kent
Good to hear from you my friend, your son Kameron is a regular poster here, and the state of magic in Billings, Mt. is an ongoing story for us.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
|||||||||
Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
Kent, I see your point and I agree with you completely.
I believe the concept of a professional was originated by the Amateur Athletic Union regulation, if you were paid for sports; you were not an amateur, but a professional and could not participate in the AAU completions A professional is a person that is paid; it does not make them a full time competent professional, |
|||||||||
Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts |
Quote:
AMEN! |
|||||||||
Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts |
Quote:
AMEN! |
|||||||||
tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Kent,
Your "vent" definitely changed the purpose of the thread, but I understand the frustration. There will always be people who claim to be more than they are. For years I worried about the same kind of things and let them eat at me. It did no good and I felt bitter. Then I realized that I had a great show and audiences loved it. I stopped worrying about what the "competition" was claiming and started focusing on what I wanted to be doing. Things turned around quickly. As a pro, everything you do reflects on your business. Invest in yourself. If your web site isn't up to snuff, (your words) that makes it easier for your competition. If their promotional materials are better than yours, problems exist. BUT - if you present yourself as a professional entertainer AND create the image that reinforces that AND include easily verifiable references AND have the show that exceeds the client's expectations - your competition has no chance. When I hear an act say they can't afford new photos, new promo, to hire a copywriter or virtual assistant or get a new web site - what they are really saying is they don't want to spend the money. My answer would be to save a percentage of every show and do it. It pays for itself and continues to generate work. I'm happy to report that the entire project - photos, copywriting and Ade's design - has officially paid for itself six times over. All in less than one month. Tom |
|||||||||
Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts |
I'm sorry to have hijacked this thread. I just did not know where else to place it.
I am talking to web designers right now so we'll see what happens. BTW, I think you (Tom) came to our fair in Billings Montana a few years back.?? Thanks again for the help and encouragement! Kent |
|||||||||
tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Kent,
Wasn't me at the fair, but that's a common mistake. All ventriloquists are alike. When working with Ade, I sent him links to sites I liked and explained exactly why I liked each site. He was able to incorporate some of that into the design. I recommend you do the same for your designer. It has to be a joint effort - but once they know what you want and need - if you like their previous work - trust them to do it. Let us know when its done - I'd love to see it! Tom |
|||||||||
Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts |
I think it was the Duck I remember. haha Maybe he's got a side gig.
|
|||||||||
Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
They have magic in Montana????
|
|||||||||
Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts |
I actually live in the Magic City.
Ha ha!; |
|||||||||
Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
Meaning its magic when you flip a doodad on the wall and this other little thing on the ceiling lights up the room...
I guess they have computers in Montana |
|||||||||
Kent Messmer Veteran user Montana 337 Posts |
Only two, and they are at the public library... no electricity in our tee pees haha.
Actually Montana is a beautiful place to live, as far as magic goes, from my stand point, it has been more challenging as we do not (and did not) have many to learn from. When I started, aside from a man that gave me a few lessons, the library was the only source to learn from. We did not have the internet or even video to learn from. No magic store (like we do now at 1120 16th Street West, Billings Mt - http://www.illusionplus.com) to purchase magic from, or even hang around in. I have worked hard to learn, hone my craft and build my reputation as a performer. (still hijacking, sorry) to have these hacks come in and try to bill themselves on my level is a slap in the face. I don't have a problem with them getting into the business at all! Just don't think because you've learned the ball & vase and a cut deeper force that you are ready for the big time! Sorry, I'll shut up now. Need to go back to work and get some of my past and repeat clients to post some real reviews for me. Later |
|||||||||
Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts |
Kent, like Tom says, all you can do is have a great act and not worry about other performers exaggerating their ability. There's nothing you can do about that.
I LOVE the new site Tom, and the extra dough you spent on pro design, copy writing and photography is definitely worth it. Going for the corporate shows, a lucrative but demanding market, I know you have to present yourself like a corporate pro entertainer and this site does that. It doesn't look cheap and home-made. Details matter, even if people don't notice them consciously. I have a friend who has studied web design and search engine marketing extensively, and he advised me not to skimp on copy. People like information and it helps in search engine placement. The reason Google is where it is in the search business is because they continually develop their algorithms to provide the best response to a searcher's query. They continually tweak it, and they are so sophisticated that 'tricks' a website might have used in the recent past to improve their standing will no longer work and can even get the site punished by Google. The only truly reliable method of keeping a site at the top of the search is to actually provide real and useful information in response to the searchers query and keep it updated and relevant. Relevant information= lots of copy. Google doesn't care if the site is pretty, so copy is a very important element. You were smart to hire a pro for that. |
|||||||||
Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
David,
I agree that Tom’s site is very professional and well constructed. The funds paid for the professional copy writing and creative photography is definitely worth every penny; skimping on either to save a few bucks would have defeated the undertaking; Tom’s web site doesn't look cheap and home-made; by looking at the site I can tell Tom knows that details matter, even if people don't notice them consciously. The only truly reliable method of keeping a site at the top of the search is to actually provide real and useful information; the more information, the easier it is for the client to make a choice Some so called experts say that less copy and more glitz will make a better site because clients don’t want to read is incorrect and misleading Hopefully members will find this post and learn how to do it right. |
|||||||||
Howie Diddot Inner circle San Francisco & Los Angeles California 3288 Posts |
Kent;
I think your becoming bitter over this guy who is getting to you. He is just trying to advance his career. He can’t because he does not have the background and others discern this by his performance. You have three things this other guy does not have A retail store, Experience as a performer Credibility as a magician He has nothing to show, other than a business card and a Magic Castle membership card; he can only talk to so many people a day. Instead of focusing on past reviews from clients, move forward and advertise yourself, it will improve your retail store and you will derive more business from advertising. From your retail store you can offer paid magic classes or you can perform free weekend shows for kids; contact the press and ask if they will advertise your events in the “what to do this weekend” section. Don’t worry about what the other guy is doing, don’t degrade him and he will not have a reason to say negative comments about you; make the effort to advance your career as a business and a magician; you will book the more prestige events and he will get the events that are only looking for the lowest cost. If you go forward in a positive direction as a professional, you will advance as a well known magician in your area and this other guy will not be able to compete with your true credentials. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Doing It Right (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |