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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Getting into memorized deck works. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Magic-Daniel
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Denmark
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Hi.

I'm looking to get working on some memorized deck works. First of all, I'm looking for a stack to remember!
I don't care if this stack can be faro'ed into by a new deck or something.
Which stack can you guys recommend me? And what books in general on this subject?

Daniel
kentfgunn
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Simon Aronson has a pdf that will act as a far better source to answer your question than all of the blathering on the Caf�.

Go here.

http://www.simonaronson.com

Look for the file; memories are made of this. You have to go through the password protected question to get there. I think you can easily answer the question.

PS.

Andrew, you weren't one of the blatherers, to whom I was referring.

KG
Nicolino
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Aronson's introduction is indeed a great resource! Besides, you can't go wrong studying all the Aronson stuff as soon as you're seriously working on mem decks - he has some the greatest publications on that subject!
By the way: You might have noticed - I'm a fanboy,! Smile
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Nicolino
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Let me add that Dennis Loomis' page is also a worthwhile place to go:
http://dennisloomis.com/memdeck/index.html
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JanForster
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Quote:
On 2011-04-06 04:32, nicolino wrote:
By the way: You might have noticed - I'm a fanboy,! Smile

And you are not alone... Smile Jan
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Merc Man
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I'd highly recommend Joe Riding's system - it's undoubtedly the best methodology I've studied.

Why?

Simply because once you've learnt his system, you can have 13 DIFFERENT packs with a completely DIFFERENT rotation yet still know instantly which card occupies whatever position in each deck. I think that this was a first for memorised deck magic, yet like most of Joe Riding's creativity, it never received the recognition that it duly deserved (or duly got stolen and claimed by other people - e.g. his diary system was basically robbed by Banacheck).

I've also read good recommendations of the book by Juan Tamariz, titled 'Mnemonica'. I've noticed how often this book sells cheaply for on ebaY and MagicWeek. Clearly a lot of people buy a book on memorized deck magic by a true genius, then find it far too difficult to learn the position of just 52 cards (or more likely, they prefer 'instant' magic and expect the deck/tricks to do all the work for them without putting the effort in to learn it).
Barry Allen

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20th May 1932 - 23rd April 2005

Thank you for making me an entertainer. I still miss ya mate.
Chessmann
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Merc, what cards to you think work best for a memorized deck? Do you think....

Oh, nevermind. Smile
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
BenSalinas
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I really like Simon Aronson's stack. It's got 2 1/2 books worth of effects built into it! Aside from being in a memorized order, there are Poker Deals, Bridge Deals, Stud deals, cards that spell to themselves, reciprocal spell pairs, the list goes on and on.

Definitely worth learning.
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BenSalinas
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Nicolino,
Thanks for the link! Great stuff!


Quote:
On 2011-04-06 04:38, nicolino wrote:
Let me add that Dennis Loomis' page is also a worthwhile place to go:
http://dennisloomis.com/memdeck/index.html
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ddyment
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You'll find no shortage of opinions on this, as everyone who's ever gone to the trouble of memorizing a stack has a favourite: the one they memorized. The truth is that unless you have an overriding interest in very specific tricks that require a special setup (like poker deals), any good memorized deck will be a "killer" tool.

I always encourage anyone interested in this topic to peruse "An Introduction to Full-Deck Stacks", which expands considerably on several associated issues, particularly the techniques used to learn the stack.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Nicolino
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As you are a novice and still have the option to choose which stack you settle on you can set your preferences:

will you be learning a stack that has a lot of potential in case you get addicted to stack magic (then choose one of those "big" ones which have been exploited thoroughly (Tamariz, Aronson, Joyal) and for which there is a lot of literature) OR you opt for a not-so-much-used stack where you will not immediately get unmasked as soon as you flash the deck with 9D at the bottom.... Smile

In essence, one well hidden full stack is not harder to learn than the other - and as Doug pointed out, as soon as you have chosen YOUR stack you will love it.

Enjoy stack magic!
Felix
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Steven Keyl
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I've said it many times before but Doug has an excellent stack in his book "Mindsights." It is a stack that allows one to quickly and easily compute the value of any card at any location. In fact, I liked it so much I went ahead and made that my memorized deck. There are no "built-in effects" per se as with the Aronson or Tamariz stacks but it has other advantages which more than make up for what it lacks.
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Magic-Daniel
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Denmark
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If I were to learn the stack of either Simon Aronson or Martin Joyal, could I still perform all the effects in "Mnemonica" - and vice versa?
Turk
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Quote:
On 2011-04-09 22:13, Magic-Daniel wrote:
If I were to learn the stack of either Simon Aronson or Martin Joyal, could I still perform all the effects in "Mnemonica" - and vice versa?


No. There are some effect that are what are called "Stack Dependent". That means those effects can only be performed with the stack that the effect is created for and is "dependent" upon. I know that some effects are stack dependent on the Aronson Stack and some effects are stack dependent on the Tamariz stack...and never the two shall meet. (As to the Joyal Stack, I'm not familiar with it so I don't know if any "stack dependent" effects have been written up for it. It wouldn't surprise me if they had, but I just do not know.)

That said, don't the exclusivity of "stack dependent" effects get you down. Most memorized deck effects are not stack dependent, and, IMHO, as a group, the stack independent effects are far superior to the effects that are stack dependent. (Again, just IMHO; your mileage may vary in this regard.)

Now, that said, there are some interesting effects (i.e., such as poker dealing demonstrations, productions of "Four of a Kind", etc.) that are stack dependent--some of which, upon the conclusion of the effect(s), have been designed to allow the deck back to be restored back to memorized deck order with little or now effort or moves.

In his "Try the Impossible" book, Simon Aronson has an entire chapter devoted to (Aronson Stack) stack dependent effects that either maintain or restore the deck back to Aronson stack order with little or no effort. Simon confirms that these "stack dependent" effects either maintain or restore the deck to memorized deck order at the conclusion of the effect. In these same remarks, Simon also points out that, since the deck is easily restored at the end of each effect, the performer theoretically is not even required to have memorized his Aronson Stack memorized deck stack order. Instead, all the performer has to do is start out in memorized deck order, and, upon completion of the effect, merely return the cards used (and removed) in the effect back where they were in the memorized deck. (Of course, Simon also points out that having memorized the deck's stack order in the first place makes the "restoration process" infinitely easier and safer to do.)

Hope that helps.

Mike
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This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Nicolino
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Quote:
On 2011-04-09 23:48, Turk wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-04-09 22:13, Magic-Daniel wrote:
If I were to learn the stack of either Simon Aronson or Martin Joyal, could I still perform all the effects in "Mnemonica" - and vice versa?


That said, don't the exclusivity of "stack dependent" effects get you down. Most memorized deck effects are not stack dependent, and, IMHO, as a group, the stack independent effects are far superior to the effects that are stack dependent. (Again, just IMHO; your mileage may vary in this regard.)


I totally agree!

To my own disappointment I found that (after pulling off my stack) I never performed a "built-in effect".... Be it because here in Germany not everybody is that familiar with Poker (and again I agree, most of the stack-dependent effects are related to Poker combinations, sometimes also Black Jack/Bridge) or be it that I simply prefer to weave in more of my own ideas and presentations than the built-ins allow me to.
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Dennis Loomis
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As mentioned above, the continued exposure of the 9D on the bottom of the deck can be a give away, especially to magicians. But, there's an easy solution:

First, avoid flashing the card on the bottom of the deck when you are in home position. Just an awareness of how you handle the cards is all that's required.

Second, don't habitually keep the deck in home position. In particular, when you return the deck to it's box or case, don't have it in home position. When you initially remove the deck from the case, do flash the face card since it will be a random one. A single cut will bring you "home" when it's necessary, but avoid "going home" if you don't have to.

Dennis Loomis
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<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
helder
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My version of Eddie fetcher "Be Honest What's it?" it's available at Penguin Magic
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AznSAmagic
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Excellent resource. The options / customization is amazing.
Cerca Trova
Dick Oslund
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I am not a stack man (I DID buy a DeLand Dollar Deck when I was a teenager!) but my old pal Denny Loomis IS. --Dito: Gene Anderson! If I were going to start stacking, I would cetainly seek their advice.

On a school tour in Montana about 25 years ago, I visited an IBM ring meeting in Great Falls. I can't remember for certain his last name) but a card man from Seattle (I believe) named Eddie ______(McGuire???)was doing some lovely card stuff. After each routine, he was cold decking the locals. He noticed my smile, and realized that I wasn't a "first of May", I was "in". I think he cold decked them about six times! He blew them away. He and I had a good laugh later.Oh! I seem to remember that Eddie told me that he had been in partnership with Stan Payne (STAR magic in the '50s) That may help someone remember his name.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Atom3339
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Old post from Dennis (^), I know. But on technique I use to minimize flashing the 9D, bottom card of Tamariz MD, is to simply cut to the KD, the 26th card, via a breather crimp. Great for starting a perfect Faro also.
TH

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