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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Is there a right or wrong? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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I hear it all the time here on the Café'. "There is no right or wrong answer, just opinions that differ".

So I put the question out there. IS there a right or wrong answer to most questions? Obviously in math and physics, but I mean what most throw about here on the Café'.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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Of course there is no wrong at the Café, the mods take care of that.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
HerbLarry
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Quote:
On 2011-04-07 17:57, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Of course there is no wrong at the Café, the mods take care of that.


ba dump bump Pishhhhhhhhhhh!
You know why don't act naive.
HerbLarry
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Quote:
On 2011-04-07 16:48, Dannydoyle wrote:
I hear it all the time here on the Café'. "There is no right or wrong answer, just opinions that differ".

So I put the question out there. IS there a right or wrong answer to most questions? Obviously in math and physics, but I mean what most throw about here on the Café'.


I'd say no cause there are soooooooooooooo many possibilities, personalities, variables, etc. that there could be few flat out wrongs that would apply to the whole group. Which is why we should be allowed to go at it and let people get as many differing opinions as possible to stir thought for their own application.
You know why don't act naive.
Andrew Zuber
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Well, I for one know that I am always right, so I don't worry too much about it Smile

It does seem like a lot of it is opinions. It would seem that if the majority of people agree on something, it is typically deemed 'right' or 'wrong.' Most of us agree that exposure is a bad thing, so we've labeled it as being wrong. Most people also think that serial killers are 'wrong.' Who's to say what the rules are? Some look to laws, some look to religion, some look to their gut feelings....

There are certainly a lot of strong opinions here on the Café. It can be good because it means people care about our discussions, but obviously it can be bad when people don't always communicate it in the nicest way. It's one of the evils of the Internet - it's hard to "hear" someone when you just see the words they've written. We get into debates about ethics and people get worked up because as great as the Internet, and a forum like this may be, they're not a replacement for face-to-face communication. That's when debates get ugly and people start to really get fired up about right and wrong.

I know I have my own opinions on things, and certain things that I think are right and wrong. Not everyone is going to agree all the time, but I personally will pick my battles. I also think some things are subjective to a certain extent, but we play them off as right or wrong. For instance, I'm currently rebuilding my web site with a new design, layout, copy, photos, the works. A lot of people will post their sites here for others to review. While I think it's great for some people, especially those new to web design, I've been around the block enough to know what works for me and what doesn't. I'm not going to post it and say "let me know what you think," not because I'm cocky, but because I know what I like and I know what's proven to be successful for ME. Yes, there are certain "rules" that it's helpful to follow when building a site. Does that make it right or wrong to not follow them? Hard to say...but I'm confident enough in my abilities as a web designer, and I've had enough experience with marketing, writing and graphic design to know what I like and what looks good. It's the same thing with a resume - one HR person is going to tell you to only use bullet points, while the next HR person with just as much experience is going to tell you to only use a block of text, and on and on. At some point, you're simply dealing with opinions. You get too many cooks in the kitchen and dinner never gets served...it just gets cold.

I think the danger of the whole "right or wrong" thing is when we pose opinions as facts. I'm as guilty of it as anyone - I have strong opinions. Does it mean I'm right? Not necessarily. Unfortunately, we sometimes see people on the Café who seem to have a need to be right all the time. I think we should always be learning, and open to new ideas and suggestions. You can't possibly be right ALL the time, but it's those who believe they are that I tend to avoid. They may have a lot of experience and they may possess a lot of knowledge, but for me, attitude plays a big role in my willingness to listen to and communicate with someone. Someone with a lot of knowledge and a friendly demeanor, I will listen to for hours. Someone with a lot of knowledge who essentially says, "I have a lot of knowledge, and this is the ONLY way to do it, period" I tend to avoid. I see it all the time in the TV industry...and that's the risk you take, especially when you're dealing with creativity and entertainment. We're NOT dealing with math, where two and two equal five (it is five, right?) We're dealing with matters that are extremely subjective. Maybe there are a bunch of different right answers, I'm not sure. I suppose it depends on the topic.

I've had way too much caffeine. I have no idea if what I just wrote makes sense.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
cairo
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How about this: In the world of performing arts it is wrong to copy someone else's work without their permission.
HerbLarry
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Quote:
On 2011-04-07 19:04, cairo wrote:
How about this: In the world of performing arts it is wrong to copy someone else's work without their permission.


How about answering Danny's question?
You know why don't act naive.
cairo
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I think what I said is flat out wrong and that IS my answer to Danny's question.
Cyberqat
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Ethics are specific to communities. One open minded look around the world at other cultures makes that clear.

Ethics develop in order to allow individuals in a community to function together in a healthy manner. Any community that stands the test of time generally has a good working set of ethics.

So yes, there is ethical and unethical behavior in any community. But it is relative to that community. And it can change over time as the situation in which that community functions changes.

But such changes are generally painful, and should be because it is the continuity of the majority of the ethical structure that makes it useful.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
Jonathan Townsend
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Ethics for those who wish to consider:

What is the good? That which gets rewarded.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Tony Curtis
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I am very disappointed to see that the Shawn Farquhar & Russ Stevens thread has been locked yet again. Maybe when this happens to another thread a moderator could add a final comment as to why the action is being taken. As least then we would all know the reason rather than having to assume that someone has complained or had some influence in the matter.

Tony Curtis
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Ken Northridge
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However certain we are that something is right or wrong it is still just an opinion. How could we possibly know for sure?

Remember these words?

“And if I claimed to be a wise man, it surely means that I don’t know.”
-Kery Livgren (of Kansas)

I believe that the only true standard of right or wrong is found in the Bible. It was written by God, a perfect being. But even that is an opinion. If you believe the Bible is merely a book of stories written by men, then you can conveniently dismiss such standards.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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Ronald72
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Ofcourse there is a right way to do things. When there isn't there wouldn't be any rules, laws or ethics. Magic has rules, methods and as I believe ethics. There are people who consious do not care. Also people who doesn't practise, rehearse and just doing magic with flashing, bad routine and bad story They are wrong too.

Magicians are not rude people and I see magi trying to say things are definitly wrong. But a lot of times the receiver doesn't want this to hear. So a learning way the Café has made his own is to help the other on his way. Saying look at this book, or this sleight or this routine. it is polite but often not clear. I wish there was a little bit more right out saying this is wrong and this is right following the methodes, rules and ethic values from magic.

So to make a long story short, yes there is a right way and a wrong way in magic.

best regards,
Ronald
Tim Ellis
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Do to others as you would have them do to you
Dannydoyle
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Do on to others, does nothing to answer the question at hand. It is a way to act. (and a fine one I might say.)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tim Ellis
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If you want to know what's right and what's wrong "ethically", it is a good guide.

Right or wrong technically... there are some established "rules" in magic, but like scientific observations, they do change when someone discovers something that works better.

As for a right and wrong artistically... generally, there is none.
ThePhilosopher
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In about 2500 years very few serious thinkers have ever thought that there is no right or wrong. Nor have serious philosophers thought that moral truths are totally subjective. The existence of moral truth wasn't the debate--however, the source of that truth has been disputed all through out the centuries. A view like "well, we can't agree so everything must be opinion anyway," is just falling into an incoherent skepticism.

Contemporary philosophy (which has been represented by opinions in this thread) tends to place the foundation of morals in a type of pragmatism: that works, is useful, etc.

I personally see a lot of problems with this contemporary "utilitarianism" and tend to take a more traditional position: yes there is an objective right and wrong, and in most cases we have an innate intuition of the main principles of morality. There are few people who do not try to follow the precept "seek good and avoid evil." The real issues--as Jonathan Townsend put well--is "What is the good?" Your ethics system depends on the answer to that question. Identifying the good with what is useful, as something objective, with what feels, or with what gets rewarded will all produce different ethical systems.
- Nathan
mmreed
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There is no right or wrong - only actions and reactions born out of opinion - single self oriented, or group driven. The society in play at any given time is the body that TRIES to define the OPINION.

In the end, only you can answer that question for yourself.
Mark Reed
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Thom Bliss
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Mmreed:

Is your answer the right one?
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2012-01-12 23:34, Thom Bliss wrote:
Mmreed:

Is your answer the right one?


It's not.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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