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The Magic Cafe Forum Index ╗ ╗ Smooth as silk ╗ ╗ Martin style pull for chimney vanish (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Michael J. Douglas
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While researching the Vanishing Bird Cage, it occurred to me that using a Martin style take-up pull could ease the handling of the old "Chimney Lamp" silk vanish. I know Owen's makes one, and I believe Jim Riser has also, but both of these would be a bit too expensive for me. I've found it difficult to search for info online, as unless you search in very specific terms, you have to sludge through a vast amount of non-magic items. Would anyone know of any other manufacturers? Or, perhaps, a way to convert a reel into a take-up pull?

Any thoughts are appreciated.
Michael J.
´┐ŻBelieve then, if you please, that I can do strange things.´┐Ż --from Shakespeare´┐Żs ´┐ŻAs You Like It´┐Ż
Bill Hegbli
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Michael, I have long wanted a take up reel but they have always been just out of my reach do to the price.

Here are the manufacturers I have known over the years.

1 - Kirkendall made them, but only on a very limited basis.
2 - Ken Brooke had the Martin style made and sold a limited supply.
3 - James Riser made a limited number and does not currently offer them for sale. He is working on the long awaited dual model for the Frankson model vanish.
4 - Owen Magic now is the only souce currently available on the market I know of.
5 - Encore Magic made them for the Billy McComb Slow Motion Vanisning Bird Cage, but they went out of business and are in hiding. No way to contact the owner. So if they actually sold any that actually went out on the market, noone knows, or I don't know of anyone purchasing the set.

It is not possible to convert a standard key ring to a take up reel. This is because of the locking system needed for the line. A jeweler could possibly do it, if he also had knowledge of tool making. They can of course be used as a replacement for the elastic method, but do require a little different handling do to the slowness of the reel versus elastic.

Take a look at the book 'The Modern Conjurer' by C. Land Neil, it discribes the Silk Pull and uses a simple take up method for the slack on page 232. Owen Magic also makes this pull. It was priced at $120.00 in the 2005 price list. This is a version of the Double action Pull.
hugmagic
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I bought a Ken Brooke (hammerton) reel for just such a use years ago. It has never found it's way into the act.

I never knew George to make a take up reel. He certainly had the know how but he would not even make the locking reels for ring flights.

For the record, the Martin style is not what Brooke had made. It was the Billy McComb refinements to the Martin reel. Encore Magic has ceased operations. Chris will eventually make a few more cages and pulls as he feels inclined to do. At this time only Owens and Jim Riser are making them.

A regular retracting reel would never have enough strength to do what has to be done to retract the reel. It is a very strong spring because of all the drag on the cord through the coat and such.


Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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Michael J. Douglas
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Bill,
I found an online version of 'The Modern Conjurer,' but page 232 shows info on Troublewit. I'll try to dig into the book a little deeper later.

Richard,
You're right about the strength of the reel. Hadn't entered my mind!


'Roy Benson by Starlight' details an interesting way to shorten the length of the silk for the vanish, but it doesn't create a more free pre-vanish like a take-up reel would. I've got Carney's 'Book of Secrets' on order, which I believe has some thoughts on the vanish. I guess unless I get lucky on one of the auction sites, getting my hands on a take-up reel may be a pipe dream.
Michael J.
´┐ŻBelieve then, if you please, that I can do strange things.´┐Ż --from Shakespeare´┐Żs ´┐ŻAs You Like It´┐Ż
Bill Hegbli
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No, Trouble Wit starts on page 353, it is at the end of the book. Then try "The Mysteriously-Joined Handkerchiefs" trick or "The Joined Handkerchiefs" these are the title pages. This is the Chimney Vanish you mentioned you were researching, he uses a combination of elastic and line. Carney sold his pull at his lectures and they were obtainable from him for $35 at one time. You could email him to see if he will still make one for you.

I have "Secrets" by Carney, it is kind of the same work in Modern Conjurer. Carney's pull is very different and will vanish a silk, but I did not care for the method of dropping the hand. I only read it, but doing the vanish on the 'off beat' is not what I was looking for in a visible silk vanish.

The Owen/Martin Type Pull is available from Owen Magic, just put it on your charge card, just tell the wife you had it for years. LOL Don't know the price as in the Owen price list I have the price is POA, Meaning "price on application".

I want to remind you that the Bird Cage Pull does not assist in the vanish at all, it only is a take up reel for the slack in the line prior to the vanish. If you would try to use it for the vanish, you would be severely hurt from the line cutting into your body.

Looking at my Ken Brooke advertisement material, it was called the "Nemo Bird Cage Pull", which is not an accurate name, as it is not a pull at all, in the sense that it is used for the action of vanishing a bird cage.
hugmagic
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I just had a long conversation on the reel with Chris three days ago. He made me aware of many things I had not thought about. As he said, "It was designed to basically let you do jumping jacks, and then do the vanish." "Billy was always working on refinements on it for years and years. He never stopped working on it."

It is a shame that Chris got out of the business. He was a good mechanic and creative guy. I am lucky to still have contact with him to bounce ideas off of.

He said, eventually, he may make some more cages and pulls. But it will be at his leisure, when he feels like making them, not to try to make a living. He has a very good 9 to 5 job that pays the bills much better than magic did or could.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Mac_Stone
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The Alan Wakeling book details a novel way of "locking" a pull. You would still have the problem of hooking up the silk, however. I suggest you look through the Benson book again. I believe that set-up allows for more freedom than you might think.
Michael J. Douglas
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Bill,
That's an interesting setup. Thanks for pointing it out. I have the video with Tommy Wonder explaining his cage vanish, and I had wondered how well the pulley would work on its own. As Tommy pointed out, while the motion needed to make the vanish decreases, so does the energy behind it. However, once his reel locked, that's what he used for his lightning-fast vanish. I can only assume he was aware of this setup when he was designing his own.

Thanks for the tip, Mac. I don't have the Wakeling book. Does it describe a locking reel, as used for Ring Flight, or is it like a take-up reel, where the reel locks once it's been retracted?
While I do like the Benson method, I'm not too keen on the permanently attached silk that you have to make "appear" before the vanish. Maybe I'm too picky. Smile
Michael J.
´┐ŻBelieve then, if you please, that I can do strange things.´┐Ż --from Shakespeare´┐Żs ´┐ŻAs You Like It´┐Ż
JNeal
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There is an alternate device that was marketed by Owen's some years ago and may still be available.
Rather than using the mechanical (and spring driven) reel to shorten the cord's length ...making it suitable for functioning as a pull, this device would allow to you 'reposition' the cord and attach it to a point on a belt loop. This would thereby bring the length to the proper one for vanishing the cage ...or silk.

I'm not sure if this is (was) exclusively a proprietary item of Owen's..but I saw it, and I know it would work. I think they sold it for about 35 dollars, and it was a little brass piece and some bead attached to the cord. Very ingenious!

Regards-JNeal
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Mac_Stone
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Michael, the Wakeling method is not any sort of mechanical one. It's a very low-tech way of "stopping" one end of a Jack Miller type pull. Just try to come up with a way of keeping the business end of your pull up your sleeve until you need it.
hugmagic
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JNeal,
I think that is a version of the Stanyon pull.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
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JNeal
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Perhaps you are right,
but:
This was not a double action pull that uses the concept of pulleys to allow 12" of retraction for 6" of movement.
Rather, it was a way of shortening the cord that allows the performer to be in a 'vanish position' after working this gimmick.
From that point on, the action is 'simple' rather than the 'compound' movement.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
Michael J. Douglas
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There's a "Mechanical 'Pull' for Vanishing a Handkerchief" listed in the index for Stanyon's Magic, and Lybrary.com has it for 3 bucks. I'll have to check it out. So many things to try.... What's old is still new to me! Smile
Michael J.
´┐ŻBelieve then, if you please, that I can do strange things.´┐Ż --from Shakespeare´┐Żs ´┐ŻAs You Like It´┐Ż
hugmagic
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I understand the difference. Maybe a combination of both would suit the needs.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Bill Hegbli
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The Owen Pull is the exact same thing as mentioned in C. Lang Neil's book the Modern Conjurer. It sold for $120.00 in 2005 price list, so it would be a little more today. I mistakenly thought is was a version of the doulbe action pull, as the design is similar to a double action, attachment points are just at different places and there is no single line coming from the arm strap to the pulley.

Owen used a bead stop for the line when drawn, C. Lang Neil book explaination uses a hook. That is the only difference between the two.

Dick Zimmerman's double action pull was attached to his belt as well, but did have the added length attached to the arm strap, ending at the pulley. This was refered to as a double action pull.

Wakeling Pull is a double action pull similar to Dick Zimmerman's pull.

FYI: Small pulleys can be purchased at any hardware store and arm straps can be made from webing from a fabric store.

Tommy Wonder's line attachment to his shoulder is probably the key to a proper double action pull. As this will actually only use half the length, but double the distance traveled. Of course he then used a take up reel to shorten the length. This may only be the correct solution. Wish we had a scientist to explain the differences when attached to shoulder vs waist belt, and added line to pulley or no line and pulley attached directly to wrist strap.

If you look very closely at the Tommy Wonder DVD, you will see he also put a stop loop on the shoulder strap, where the line would actually stop to take the force generated. This was not in the book explaination, he says he put a bead in the line. So the book and the video are actually different in design. I would think the bead in the line did not last a long time with regular use.

Maybe just a simple reel is the answer, I still rememeber when Joseph Gabriel was on the Carson show a second or 3 time. He did a silk vanish, where the silk was put in his left fist, with a tail still showing. The silk was pulled inside his fist automatically. The audience gasped at the silk moving in, Grabriel then opened his fist and the silk was gone. I was very surprised at the audiences response of this type of vanish.
bojanbarisic
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JNeal,
alternate device you are talking about is Edgar`s Liberty Pull first described in Magic Wand, 1921.

regards,
Bojan
hugmagic
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As I have been told, one pulley only changes direction. Two pulleys double the advantage and so on.

Henry Evans also did a good vanish in a plastic baggie using a ring flight type reel.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
keithmagic
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I created a hold out line lock similar in principle to Tommy Wonder's "frozen lock" he published in The Books of Wonder.

People have talked about it here - http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=113

I have experimented with it quite successfully as a sort of "take up" lock when looking for an alternative to a Martin take up pull.

Since it is designed to literally take up slack in a line, and also due to how it is made, it can take a LOT of force - the forces generated while vanishing the cage (or anything else for that matter).

It's a pretty unique solution to the problem, I think.

Keith
Author of "The Festival Entertainer" The Professional Entertainer's Guide to Booking and Working Outdoor Fairs, Festivals, and Events.
Available at http://www.howtobookfestivals.com
IDOTRIX
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Darien,il
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Could somebody post a picture of the take up pull that Ken Brooke used to carry. I believe it is a Martin style if I'm not mistaken. Richard believes it's Hammerton style. Does anybody know what the going rate is on the one from Ken Brooke in pristine condition. Thanks, Mike
hugmagic
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The difference between the Martin and the Hammerton (Ken Brooke' ) reel was hot the line was locked when extended. The Martin had a small line two prong pin that insert into the drum. The Hammerton/Brookes and Encore all had a spring loaded clip that inserted into the drum like a ring flite reel I am trying to find a photo of the Martin reel.

As for going rate, I would guess $1500+.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index ╗ ╗ Smooth as silk ╗ ╗ Martin style pull for chimney vanish (1 Likes)
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