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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Smooth as silk » » Martin style pull for chimney vanish (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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IDOTRIX
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Darien,il
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I don't have one Richard but I have one that a may be purchasing. as I recall the line has what looks to be in the shape of a bullet that goes into the reel body to lock.
Bill Hegbli
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Owen Magic makes a Martin type reel.

It is pictured here, with the Billy McComb added brown tongue as shown. The original does not have this protrusion to prevent the shirt from getting caught.

http://www.owenmagic.com/New_Items/new_items.html

$1500 was for the cage and pull combination. If I remember correctly, Owen Magic sold the pull alone for $1,250.00. I would say an original would be anywhere from $600.00 to $900.00, as they sold for $150.00 back in the 1970's.

Unless you have an Owen Vanishing Cage or James P. Riser Cage, there is actually no reason to have this pull. It is not used to actually vanish the cage at all. It only take up slack in the line, before the vanish. Using this any other way will injure you very severely. The line will cut you deeply.
IDOTRIX
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Thanks for the info Bill. I know exactly how to use it. I have been doing the cage for thirty five yrs and own many cages. I an a very big guy and the take up pull would give me comfort to do a one hand cage until I lock it in. The Martin style reel has a value of $2500 -$3000 on the collectors market from what I found out. I called Owens today but they were closed. Last I checked they were around $1250.00
hugmagic
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You do not want a Martin for the reasons the very reason I stated above. You can lose the pin too easily.

Actutally, you can use the pull on any rigid cage. There are still some good Lindhorst cages out there. National Magic, Lindhorst, Milson Worth, even Horace Marshall all made good rigid cages. One of the problems I have heard with the Owen's cage is that it may be too stift when it is new.

I bought my reel to do the chimney pull in the middle of the act. It never got in to the act.

Yes, the piece that inserts into the pull is bullet shaped with a grooved shoulder that allows it to lock in place when retracted into the pull. Kind of like an O ring into a groove.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
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Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On 2011-04-10 20:45, hugmagic wrote:
As I have been told, one pulley only changes direction. Two pulleys double the advantage and so on.

Richard


Tommy Wonder calls his pull set-up a double action pull. He only has one pulley on his set up. Wish we had an industrial engineer or a mechanical engineer to explain the difference.
Magician Shaun
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Typically pulleys increase mechanical advantage and increase distance traveled. Gears usually do the opposite.
hugmagic
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From basic high school science class. ..one pulley only changes direction. There is no mechanical advantage. Two pulleys add advantage and so on.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On 2012-12-10 11:18, hugmagic wrote:
From basic high school science class. ..one pulley only changes direction. There is no mechanical advantage. Two pulleys add advantage and so on.

Richard


Richard, I can only advise you take a look at the Tommy Wonder DVD on his Vanishing Bird Cage set up. He called it a double action in his book and DVD. I really don't know anything else, as he could have been making up a term of his own, as he states, he gets twice the pull length from half the energy. The pulley use in this case does not change direction of the line, it doubles it in half. As I stated, we need a mechanical engineer to clarify this further.

To further confuse this set-up, there is a difference between hooking to the pants, compared to the shoulder loop. I don't have a couple people that can help set-up the device with me. So to analyze the action would be interesting to go further and see why it works as it does.

I think I have spent more time on this pull action then anyone else, and have not figured it out yet.
Bill Hegbli
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Ever since Michael J. Douglas has posted his intriguing question, it has been in the back of my mind ever since. So for some years I have been working on a non-excessively expensive solution. I believe I have found one, and am currently working on the arrangement. As $500 to $1250 just does not make sense to take up 8 to 12 inches of a piece of cord.

It will be information gleaned from C. Lang Neil, Tommy Wonder, Owen, Dick Zimmerman, and others. This will give the slack needed to wear the cage during a show or act and be able to vanish the Vanishing Bird Cage at any time the performer wishes.

The famous magician's that performed the Vanishing Bird Cage over the years, usually did the effect as a Closer or Encore feature effect. To be able to perform the cage trick at any time during an act what I am shooting for as a solution.
Bill Hegbli
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Just learned that Al Baker published his "Lighting Pull" in his book Pet Secrets. Anyone have this book and can send me Page 36, 37, and 38 on the pull? It is for my research.
Dan Ford
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Bill Hegbli has found a great clip for attachment of the bird cage to the take up line. I got one from him a while back and it works great!
Hookem
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I have both pulls made by Owen -- the Flash Pull and the Martin-Type Pull. I use the Flash Pull with my cage.
Pete Biro
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I had both an original Martin and a Hammerton take up pull. I sold the Martin to Tommy Wonder (very reasonable low price, as we were good friends). I still have the Hammerton. Joe Porpere is considering the production of a similar one. Zaney Blaney told me he was getting ready to market his cage and pull system.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Bill Hegbli
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Pete, Zany Blaney has been trying to get cages manufactured for the last 20 years or so. It is a boring job and very hard work with special machines and jigs.

Zany, worked with Owen Magic for years developing the cages he used in his performances, suggesting and making improvements to the design of the cage.

I guess he cannot get Owen Magic to make them either.

I have corresponded with Zany Blaney some years back, he was very helpful and kind. There is nothing out the ordinary with his pull, as it the standard pull that comes with every Vanishing Bird Cage. He has made a feature that makes it easier to use different fitting jackets, that I thought was a very good idea and an easy method.

Remember Encore Magic Products, he went out of business with the Billy McComb Vanishing Bird Cage.
Dick Oslund
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Bill~ Did you ever get the pages from Al Baker's "Pet Secrets"???

My copy, which I had loaned out, a few years ago, just returned "home"!

Lemme know, if you still need those pages.....
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On Feb 15, 2018, Dick Oslund wrote:
Bill~ Did you ever get the pages from Al Baker's "Pet Secrets"???

My copy, which I had loaned out, a few years ago, just returned "home"!

Lemme know, if you still need those pages.....



Dick, I never got any response to my request.
Dick Oslund
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I have a couple BUSY days, but, I'll sneak down to the copy shop, at first chance, and, burn a copy.....
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
TomB
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Quote:
He only has one pulley on his set up. Wish we had an industrial engineer or a mechanical engineer to explain the difference.

Will you take an electrical engineer? Here is my stab at it.
I would not have used the words single action double action pulley to describe Tommy Wonders pulley. During trials, when Tommy used a double action pulley, he was disappointed because he had half the energy. Don't overthink this, it is a single action pulley. It starts as a single semi-fixed pulley and then changes into a single movable pulley. When Tommy is stating single or double, he is referring to speed of the line. Speed and force are opposing characteristics, you get one or the other.

During the vanish phase, he used a single semi-fixed pulley, the main advantage is the single short cord used. In fact the stop even makes the cord shorter (book) or tied to the ring (DVD). Tommy stated he only needed 2 inches of movement and that would create all the force needed for the vanish. This is an amazing amount of force (I wish it was measured).

During the take up phase, Tommy used the single movable pulley.
For every inch the pulley is moved towards the take up reel, the birdcage cord/birdcage is moved two inches. This he considers double the speed.

Of course it is in fact the same single pulley used for both phases. I am very grateful for Tommy for showing us how he did in my opinion one of the best tricks of magic executed by one of the best.
Bill Hegbli
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James P. Riser, the expert machinist, who makes Vanishing Bird Cages and spring loaded pulls, is selling instructions on how to make a take up reel. So if you are a machinist or know someone like a Tool and Dye maker, then you have a opportunity to make a Reel Pull.
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