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Jim Oliver
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Las Cruces, New Mexico
141 Posts

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Hello fellow card gurus.

I have been pondering over this problem for a little while and now I have to spew!
Perhaps some of the old timers will agree with me and perhaps some of the younger blood will not, but here's my issue.

There is a magic shop within a 40 minute drive of where I live. I have been there a number of times. Every time I am there the young guys that are behind the counter are usually doing a bunch of fancy cutting of the cards in their hands. After about 30 seconds of this I am ready to fall asleep because it is like watching someone juggle.

Now, I know that these guys can do some card magic, but maybe not very much, but that isn't the problem.
When I talk to them about books on magic, they don't know anything, because they only watch DVD's.

I asked one of them if they know who Juan Tamariz is and he said "I think so?" I'm not sure if he really did or not.

I asked him if he new who Vernon was and he said "He was that old guy, right?" Apparently he doesn't study Vernon.

I asked him if he knew who Ed Marlo was and he said "No." I almost passed out!

Now I know that there are some very nice DVD's out there, but I feel that these guys are missing the boat when it comes to learning the psychology of magic that really is only found in books, along with the history of where it is that their craft came from. It was NOT invented by D&D or any of these others that are all over You Tube land.

They are missing the boat in my opinion.

Jim Oliver
Ed Marlo rules
Maitre D
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Welcome to the new generation.

My best advice is... Get used to it.
poonchingyip
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Canada
420 Posts

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Quote:
On 2011-04-09 13:43, Maitre D wrote:
Welcome to the new generation.

My best advice is... Get used to it.

lol @ "Welcome to the new generation"
I really agree, as a lot of people DO NOT like to read books nowadays.
(I was one of those people when I just started magic 5 years ago; but now I LOVE books =D)

- Arthur
Chris Piercy
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Dorset, England
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I completely agree that there are members of 'the new generation' who are completely void of any knowledge or history of our great art but as a magician who would probably be considered as part of the new generation I'd ask that we are not all to be tarred with the same brush as although I learn better from dvds I am well read and know that all modern magicians stand on the shoulders of giants even if some of them don't know it themselves.

I also can't flourish for toffee, I'd much rather put a card in a balloon!
WilburrUK
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You did say "behind" the counter? IE serving? In a magic shop? Advising customers? And they don't know / care about Marlo, Vernon or Tamariz?

Nope, I can't get my head round that.
jcigam
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Bellevue, Nebraska
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I guess you could try a little mentoring. Try and subtly let them know how cool it would be to truly understand where their hobby came from. Bring up the point people like Dan and Dave idolize those performers you mentioned (I don't know if this is true or not but you get my point).

Also realize, that most magic shops (besides the owners) are manned by young people who are interested in magic. The shop usually can't afford to pay an adult knowledgeable of magic to stand behind the counter. Of course, this is just my experience.

I have friends that are really good performers but don't know anything about where magic started or how it got to where it is. It's a little frustrating but it takes someone who knows and cares to pass it on.

By the way, I am a juggler and "falling asleep after 30 seconds" seems pretty generous.

Jered
"The mind has exactly the same power as the hand, not merely to grasp the world, but to change it."
caruk
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Quote:
On 2011-04-09 13:43, Maitre D wrote:
Welcome to the new generation.

My best advice is... Get used to it.


The wonderful thing about this new generation(s) is that it will create more work for us older guys.
They will be cookie cutter copies of all the REAL magicians and have no character of their own.
Those of us from the old school will continue to get work because we know what magic is all about.
And this is because we learned and studied it from books.
Jim Oliver
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Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Well yes, I can get used to it just like some people can get used to losing an arm or a leg!

But, they don't like to read. I know that it is a different type of technology, trust me I love my Tommy Wonder DVD's, and my Ed Marlo and Bill Malone and a few others DVD's.

But I also can't wrap my head around the fact that they don't want to read!!! Period!!!

I used to have some really good magic on VHS tapes and now I can't even watch them.
In fifteen years or so will there still be DVD players around that work? Will I have to replace the irreplaceable with the newer technology?

Guess what? After I am long dead and gone, my great grand children will still be able to read my books, if they still teach people how to read.

Jim
Ed Marlo rules
diehards2080
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Brooklyn, New York
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No surprise there to tell you the truth. The way I look at it they are losing out. But even Marlo and Vernon has a DVD or two out there.
RS1963
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For them to know know of Vernon, Marlo, etc. Also shows that they may not even be watching videos where any crediting is done at all. We all know the online magic business's that produce such DVD's and leave a lot of information out.

I don't get the "I don't like to read crowd" They have always been around. I knew magicians that were starting out the same time I did. Some didn't like to read but they had too. Books and learning from other magicians was all we had. There were no videos, internet etc.. back then. The kids read in school or at least some do so the I don't read books is just them being lazy.
calebjuggles
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I personally love reading the books. Even though the vids can be a clearer, Im always a little disapointed at the end.
caruk
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Quote:
On 2011-04-09 14:18, diehards2080 wrote:
No surprise there to tell you the truth. The way I look at it they are loosing out. But even Marlo and Vernon has a DVD or two out there.


I think it is great that these old masters are immortalized on film. This is a good thing.
The bad thing is: I have seen young magicians imitating them word for word, inflection for inflection. They had no character of their own. Mere imitators. Yes, this is part of becoming a great performer. But the "imitation phase" will cripple many young magicians because they learn everything from imitation, not innovation.
Albert Goshman (remember him?) said it best when he stated in his book: "I'm selling ME". An image. Not an imitation.
Jim Oliver
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Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Something funny that I just have to add is that my son in law said "I bet if you sent them
a text message with all that info in it they would read it!"

JIm
Ed Marlo rules
KyleMacNeill
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I'm a young magician, and gladly I'm not into that XCM stuff, I try to follow the classics and get up to notch via crediting. Smile
I hope I can be classified as my own variation of the 'new generation', I'm sure I am not as educated as the old generation was at my age, but I try to now stay away from turning into just a modern magician...

Kyle
caruk
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Good on you Kyle.
J.Warrens
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My solution to the problem is to show them something mind-blowing. When they ask where it's from, I name the book. Repeat ad nauseum.

Eventually they get it.

Cheers,

J.Warrens
KyleMacNeill
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Quote:
On 2011-04-09 15:15, caruk wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-04-09 15:13, KyleMacNeill wrote:
I'm a young magician, and gladly I'm not into that XCM stuff, I try to follow the classics and get up to notch via crediting. Smile
I hope I can be classified as my own variation of the 'new generation', I'm sure I am not as educated as the old generation was at my age, but I try to now stay away from turning into just a modern magician...

Kyle

Good on you Kyle.

Thanks Carauk! PM'ed ya.

Kyle
Jim Oliver
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Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Perhaps it is just me, but I guess I'm not through venting yet.

Here's a true story told to me by the owner of a magic shop in Scottsdale, Arizona a couple of years ago.

He said that a number of years ago when Tony Slydini was still alive, he (Slydini) had come into the magic shop and the owner had a young guy working for him at the time. Well the young guy did not know who Slydini was and proceeded to show him a Linking Ring routine. It was not the best. He rushed it and did not pause at all the right moments, etc.

After he finished he asked Slydini what he thought of his routine. Slydini told him that he should slow down, don't move so fast. People can't appreciate what you are trying to show them because you don't take your time.

Dramatic pause here....

After Slydini left, the young guy turned to the owner of the shop and shrugged his shoulders and said "What does that old guy know about it anyway." And then he ran off to help a customer that had just come in.

Lord help us!

Jim
Ed Marlo rules
Andrew Zuber
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Los Angeles, CA
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I love having the books because they're great resources, and I enjoy my collection. It's great when someone says, "Oh, it's in Tarbell on page 37." I have it right at my fingertips. I also love to read in general - a good book will keep you engrossed for hours.

That said, I hate learning routines in writing. It is very rare that I can fully make sense of something that's written. Throw in all the pictures and descriptions you want - I'm a visual learner. I want to see it performed, see the move explained, and watch someone do it. It's just how my mind works. I also struggle because even though I'm right handed, I perform backwards to what most descriptions state. If it says "hold the ball with your right hand" I'm probably holding it with the left. I've always been that way, so a description can be confusing because every time I see left/right, in my mind I have to reverse that. On video, it's easier for me to make that change.

However, I can't fathom any student of magic not knowing Vernon, Marlo, Tamariz or some of the other greats. That's not just about books, it's about being involved in the magic community and talking to other performers. If these guys really didn't know any of the people you mentioned, their problem isn't simply books versus DVDs. Their problem is they don't truly care about magic.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Tom Fenton
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Jim,

Your story reminded me of a friend of mine who was learning guitar.
He was in his local bar and the barman asked him how he was progressing with the guitar.
He replied that he was having trouble with barr chords.

The fellow next to him at the bar asked what the exact problem was. Bob told him that he got fret buzz as he couldn't get his barring finger straight.
The fellow then gave him some advice about moving his elbow forward so that he changed the angle of his barring finger.

After the helpful man left, Bob asked the barman, "What does he know about guitar playing?"
The barman replied, "Probably more than you, that was Eric Clapton."
"But there isn't a door"
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