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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » It bothers me (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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stoneunhinged
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You know, I'm surrounded by young people every day who have something to learn. I kinda figure that...well...maybe they'll learn it, maybe they won't. If they do, way cool. If they don't, that's cool, too. They'll move on to other things.

Going tsk tsk and talking about how shameful it is that they haven't yet learned what they need to learn is a bit, ah, well, premature. We don't look at babies and go tsk tsk because they can't yet walk or talk. Why should it be any different with young people?

Lighten up, folks. They're just kids.
Andrew Zuber
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Turk - I couldn't agree more. I too am a stickler about grammar, spelling, punctuation - you know, the things you learn in about the third grade.

It astounds me how many badly written things I see in the magic field. Advertising, web sites, regular books, ebooks, instructions...if there's an opportunity for the written word, I've seen someone screw it up in the magic field. If an author has limitations or knows he struggles with spelling or grammar, have someone proof read the book. I've seen people on the forum from time to time, hyping their latest release, and the posts are filled with errors. I won't buy from a person like that. They may have fantastic ideas, but if they can't write a couple of sentences properly, it's hard to believe that they've taken the time to thoroughly examine what they're selling, not just for spelling errors, but the product as a whole. I even saw an L&L DVD once with a title misspelled, so this extends even to that (although in general I really enjoy the L&L products.)

Sadly, this seems to be acceptable to most people, which is too bad. I must say, some magic books are extremely well written. Anything David Regal puts out is going to be solid - then again, the guy makes his living as a writer, so that's no surprise.

I wonder if this occurs as much in other fields?
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Harry Lorayne
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Please don't just say "books"! That puts me into that category, and I'm not. Easily solved, anyway - just buy the books from authors who know how to write, besides knowing how to teach magic - meaning, know how to teach an effect/routine/sleight/idea, etc., without having to show it on a DVD.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
Merc Man
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Quote:
On 2011-04-09 13:43, Maitre D wrote:
Welcome to the new generation.

My best advice is... Get used to it.

I'd love to have a magic shop - anyone standing there juggling cards would get dragged round by the scruff of the neck to the nearest pub, thrown in front of a crowd of boozed up blokes and told "there you go - entertain them son"! After they died on their **** I'd give them some advice... 'get used to it'! Smile
Barry Allen

"The Rules of the Sleight-of-Hand Artist, are three and all others are vain; the first and second are 'practice', and the third one is 'practice again'.

Edward Victor 1936
bishthemagish
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On 2011-04-09 17:02, MickeyPainless wrote:
Just give me a brick of cards and a Harry Lorayne book and I'd be fine! I admire Marlo's work but after the 27th version of the same move I become bored! Smile

MMc


That's because Marlo liked to hide his good suff.

Cheers!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
MickeyPainless
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Hey Jim,

I too worked for the DER back around 73! The owner was a stickler to detail and would park his van across the street down an alley and watch us through binoculars! He would put dimes in the nooks and crannies of the bright work to ensure we cleaned every sq. inch! He'd also send spies to make bizarre orders and have them rate our service! We knew he did these things but never when or where so it kept us on our toes and we learned to take pride in our work!

Making Asst. Manager by 17-18 was a big deal back then, yet you'd probably be ridiculed by your peers today just for working in a fast food joint!

MMc


Posted: Apr 10, 2011 12:13pm
--------------------------------------
I think Barry and I would get along quite well in person!
R.E. Byrnes
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Things were so much better back when Young People read books, revered the Greats, and respected an honest day's work
caruk
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Quote:
On 2011-04-10 13:02, R.E. Byrnes wrote:
Things were so much better back when Young People read books, revered the Greats, and respected an honest day's work.

Amen
Justin W
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We can file this thread under "Needlessly Redundant".

What do you guys prefer, red or blue decks?
Jim Oliver
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Justin W,

I don't find anything said here to be "Needlessly Redundant".

Do you think practicing a card move to perfection is "Needlessly Redundant"?
Do you think studying the history of magic is "Needlessly Redundant"?
Do you think having people respect you for entertaining them week after week
at the same restaurant or night club is "Needlessly Redundant"?
Do you think giving magic lessons to younger Ed Marlo's and future Dia Vernon's
and little Harry Loraynes is "Needlessly Redundant"?

I don't!

Thank you guys for commenting and giving your thoughts on my little subject.

Jim Oliver

P.S. I was one of those little magicians back in the day and believe it or not, buy the
time I was 17 I knew who Hofzinser was, Ed Marlo, Dia Vernon, Harry Lorayne, Jerry Mintzer,
Robert Houdin, Jimmy Grippo, Paul Harris, Michael Skinner, Chung Ling Soo, Martin Nash and
a whole lot more... and that was in 1976!!!
Ed Marlo rules
Tim Sutton
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Tim Sutton AIMC, London UK
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"needlessly redundant" - at least half of that phrase is redundant.
R.E. Byrnes
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It's redundant to "twist" four aces rather than just one. Is it needless?
MaxfieldsMagic
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Instead of practicing, I made
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Quote:
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

- Attributed to Socrates by Plato.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
Justin W
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I guess after a while it just gets irritating hearing the same stomping and hollering from magicians over this topic. This thread boils down to "*********, this sucks," and happens to show up every other day on every type of magic forum. But oh well. I'll just steer clear and let you guys fume.

Here's something a bit more constructive to add--with the death of printed media, yes, we should just get used to it. I'm only 20, so it's my generation, and the generation before me, that's getting your guys' goat so badly. I'm just as annoyed as you guys, but we just have to accept that more ebooks and more DVDs means more of the childish ******. Yes, it sucks. But it's just too big of a situation to do anything about. It's something massive affecting the whole world, which in turn affects our small magic world. Instead of getting upset over the deck chairs, let's just enjoy how comfortable they are, eh boys?
magicfish
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Jim, you share my thoughts exactly. The good news is, the DVD guys will never be any good. The bad news is, they show people "magic" and that hurts real magicians. By real magicians, of course, I mean those who have studied and study the art, and one cannot properly be a student of this fine art without its literature.
Rod.
Andrew Zuber
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I wouldn't say "the DVD guys will never be any good." I do think, as someone else said, that DVDs can be good supplements to books, especially for those of us that struggle with learning just from the written word.

Having said that, I fully acknowledge that the work of many of the greats in magic is far more present in literature than it is on tape, and it's important that any serious student of magic look at those resources as well.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
rklew64
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What I want to know is how you would get power on the island to run the dvd and tv?! And what about snacks, you have to have snacks!
Brandon Sheffield
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This whole thread is kind of funny to me. We have to realize a few things first.

1. Not all young guys have little knowledge of the "greats" just like not all old guys hate young magicians. For every young guy out there who is "juggling" cards and doesn't know who Marlo was, I will give you the Buck twins. Two people who have an extreme respect for the classics in magic, not only the magicians but also the books as well. Not to mention they can *** sure juggle some cards Smile

2. There are great performers believe it or not who learned from magic DVDs! I love magic books, I have a nice collection much to the dismay of my wife. But the truth of the matter is I also have a huge DVD collection and I have learned from them equally as much.

3. I guess I might be considered a younger magician??? I'm not sure, I turn 30 in December but if I was younger and I saw the way we talk about younger magicians on some of these forums, I really wouldn't blame them for having a disregard for any kind of history.

4. One last thing, just because a young magician doesn't know who Ed Marlo was, does not mean he doesn't respect magic. Maybe he just respects some one else? What if he couldn't name a magician from the 60's but he could name every Chris Kenner, Josh Jay, Paul Harris, Greg Wilson, and every other wonderful magician since. Does that make him less of a magician? It might make him less of a historian but it doesn't make him disrespectful or less of a performer.

I can only imagine how the older magicians talked about some of you guys when you were young Smile

Brandon
magicfish
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Quote:
On 2011-04-10 22:43, Brandon Sheffield wrote:
This whole thread is kind of funny to me. We have to realize a few things first.

1. Not all young guys have little knowledge of the "greats" just like not all old guys hate young magicians. For every young guy out there who is "juggling" cards and doesn't know who Marlo was, I will give you the Buck twins. Two people who have an extreme respect for the classics in magic, not only the magicians but also the books as well. Not to mention they can *** sure juggle some cards Smile

2. There are great performers believe it or not who learned from magic DVDs! I love magic books, I have a nice collection much to the dismay of my wife. But the truth of the matter is I also have a huge DVD collection and I have learned from them equally as much.

3. I guess I might be considered a younger magician??? I'm not sure, I turn 30 in December but if I was younger and I saw the way we talk about younger magicians on some of these forums, I really wouldn't blame them for having a disregard for any kind of history.

4. One last thing, just because a young magician doesn't know who Ed Marlo was, does not mean he doesn't respect magic. Maybe he just respects some one else? What if he couldn't name a magician from the 60's but he could name every Chris Kenner, Josh Jay, Paul Harris, Greg Wilson, and every other wonderful magician since. Does that make him less of a magician? It might make him less of a historian but it doesn't make him disrespectful or less of a performer.

I can only imagine how the older magicians talked about some of you guys when you were young. Smile

Brandon

It's nothing to do with being a historian.
Jim Oliver
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Rklew64,

That's what the coconuts are for!

Brandon Sheffield,

My point I guess is this. If I were an artist, like someone who paints works that
hang in the art galleries of New York or London, and I did not have a clue as to who
Rembrant or Van Gough were, I would be laughed out of the city!

So yes I think that anybody who considers themselves a CARDICIAN better know who Vernon
or Marlo was, you better believe it!!!

Jim
Ed Marlo rules
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