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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » It bothers me (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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rklew64
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Coconuts...Awesome!!
I know not correct to digress on this thread but just to say - Mary Ann.
Merc Man
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My comments were not aimed at younger people - I've known countless older magicians that don't buy magic books and haven't been interested in the history of magic.

However, for the earlier comment about 'printed media' being dead.

Let's remember just one thing; books were around for a bloody long time before videos.....and they are still being printed long after BetaMax and VHS have long been forgotten. No doubt it will be the same with DVD's as well! Smile
Barry Allen

"The Rules of the Sleight-of-Hand Artist, are three and all others are vain; the first and second are 'practice', and the third one is 'practice again'.

Edward Victor 1936
Justin W
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Books will not totally disappear anytime soon. However, they will become more and more marginalized. This is a fact, and one that cannot be helped (unfortunately). DVDs are not the future of magic--that title belongs to instant downloads.
J.Warrens
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Quote:
On 2011-04-11 02:10, Justin W wrote:
DVDs are not the future of magic--that title belongs to instant downloads.


Actually, not correct. The "future" of magic belongs to those with talent, hard work and dedication. Those who study, practice and think. The medium one uses to study doesn't really matter.

I don't believe that instant downloads are really the way. They're for hobbyists. The real problem is that magic is seen as a "get rich quick" scheme far too often. I think as time progresses, we will begin to see less and less magic being marketed because of the rampant piracy that is so easy with videos. I predict that books (whether physical or electronic) will become the province of the "real work", while amateurs will continue to make amateur creations for amateur money.

That's not to say that all amateurs fit into this category (there are certainly many who don't), but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the one's who do .

Sorry to get off-topic momentarily.

Cheers,

J.Warrens
greymagick
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Quote:
Actually, not correct. The "future" of magic belongs to those with talent, hard work and dedication.

And even if you don't have any talent, enough hard work and dedication may allow you to do the trick. In more ways than one.

Talent may make things easier, but you cannot go far without breaking a sweat.
- Grey
Justin W
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What I meant was, with the digitizing of media, eventually magic will go the way of nearly full-on "instant download," just as CDs have all but died as the rise of the mp3 and the iPod keeps growing and growing. I was not commenting at all on the magicians themselves, just the type of medium. I'd hazard that magicians will adapt to learning through this medium if it's the only option. Instant downloads are for the hobbyists NOW, but that might not necessarily be the case in the future. It's easy and comforting to say magicians will remain ardent traditionalists, but if the current and impending generations have taught us anything, it's that our traditions aren't as cast in stone as we'd hope them to be. The consumer culture of magic is no different than the consumer culture of the world at large, which means convenience and immediacy trump quality and reliability any day of the week.

To continue this metaphor, vinyl sounded great, cassettes sounded terrible, CDs were a slight step up from cassettes--but not so hot--and now mp's sound like hell. But that's not stopping the new generations from jumping gung-ho onto the mp3 wagon because you can now fit 40,000 songs on something the size of your palm. Sure you have the vinyl revivalists (I just picked up two Talking Heads records just yesterday--happiest day of my life), but compared to the public at large, they ain't nothing.
greymagick
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Quote:
To continue this metaphor, vinyl sounded great, cassettes sounded terrible, CDs were a slight step up from cassettes--but not so hot--and now mp's sound like hell. But that's not stopping the new generations from jumping gung-ho onto the mp3 wagon because you can now fit 40,000 songs on something the size of your palm.

Right, but that is not the point in question. That would be more along the lines of whether the easy availability of 40,000 badly sounding songs has somehow degraded the value of music in the eyes of the owner. Some would say that if cheap music is so easy to get, it won't be appreciated as much. That is certainly debatable.

Easy availability, easy means of production, and lots of options mean that a greater part of the total will be of inferior quality. That I won't dispute. But whether or not each individual can learn to appreciate the underlying values and seek a deeper understanding, that has not essentially changed. I can see why many of us dislike the idea of low-quality magic being available to the 'uneducated masses' because we feel it trivializes something that we have a deep respect for. But we must be aware that magic is trivialized only in the hands of those who don't love it enough and don't have a passion for it. There always will be serious, respectful students. They are easy to pick out from the random noise background. And those will really learn, and keep learning real, quality magic, by any means available, being more able to discern what is of value and what isn't. Things have not changed that much, in my opinion. Only the scale of things has.
- Grey
R.E. Byrnes
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Magic is in greater peril if those practicing it genuinely take the statement that instant downloads are "the future" to be a statement that videos have somehow supplanted "talent, hard work and dedication."

Also, if the "medium one uses to study doesn't really matter," why would there be an entirely improbable, counter-technology movement by which only books become the repository for "serious work," while abject amateurs are relegated to the inferior instant download medium? how exactly will that completely inorganic separation happen? Lee Asher, for one, disseminates his methods in a hybrid form: essentially electronic books in which what used to be crappy, static drawings are links to videos. it's difficult to see how that's a step backward from the terse text and often completely unhelpful photos of, say, Stars of Magic.

Paper books were radical in their time, and their becoming commonplace was lamented by those who saw them supplanting the Right Way to Learn: face-to-face, mentor to mentee instruction, given only when the newcomer had demonstrated fidelity to the Art. so why not just go full luddite, and insist that we return to that model if we really want to exalt talent, hard work and dedication?

The great moves and effects will always be hard and require years of focus layered on some innate ability and deep interest. Callow 15 year-olds with black cards and incongruous background music doing Zarrow "tutorials" are no more a threat than the many mediocrities who ordered the original Tarbell course, or the wide availability of double-face cards. As with the popularization of books, both of those events were also projected to have dire consequences by people who remembered a better era that just happened to coincide with when they were around 20 years old. There were crappy magicians even when people supposedly had great respect for managers at der Weinerschnitzel, just as there are now; b.f.d. there are probably more great ones, now, than in all the rest of human history combined, and that's partly attributable to technology allowing methods to reach those with exceptional innate talent, desire or interest who, in prior eras, would never have discovered them under past conventions and limitations.

Above all, though, technology will always overwhelm attempts to contain it. Better to light a candle than engage the futility of cursing the darkness.
Justin W
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
Andrew Zuber
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What he said. Smile
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On 2011-04-10 06:34, stoneunhinged wrote:
You know, I'm surrounded by young people every day who have something to learn. I kinda figure that...well...maybe they'll learn it, maybe they won't. If they do, way cool. If they don't, that's cool, too. They'll move on to other things.

Going tsk tsk and talking about how shameful it is that they haven't yet learned what they need to learn is a bit, ah, well, premature. We don't look at babies and go tsk tsk because they can't yet walk or talk. Why should it be any different with young people?

Lighten up, folks. They're just kids.


QFT.
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R.E. Byrnes
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Seconded
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2011-04-11 00:12, Jim Oliver wrote:
If I were an artist . . . and I did not have a clue as to who Rembrant or Van Gough were, I would be laughed out of the city!

As Andrew Zuber might write: Rembrandt and Van Gogh.
R.E. Byrnes
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Even a tiny misspelling does kind of kill the force of arguments about how it's indispensable to know particular names
caruk
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Quote:
On 2011-04-11 17:19, R.E. Byrnes wrote:
Even a tiny misspelling does kind of kill the force of arguments about how it's indispensable to know particular names


Unless it was done intentionally.......
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
MaxfieldsMagic
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Quote:
On 2011-04-11 16:59, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-04-11 00:12, Jim Oliver wrote:
If I were an artist . . . and I did not have a clue as to who Rembrant or Van Gough were, I would be laughed out of the city!

As Andrew Zuber might write: Rembrandt and Van Gogh.


Actual quote from a song sung by Sycolin Creek Elementary School's (Leesburg, VA) second grade class at this year's annual musical, as they stood there with bandages over their ears:

"Van Gogh!
Though mentally unstable,
He really was able
To see things others couldn't see."

How cute they are at that age.

Back to the thread...
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
MickeyPainless
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I'm all for proper spelling (but as most know, I am punctually/ (punctuation-ally) illiterate) but when did our discussions become so literate and hyper intellectual? Geez, I need a dictionary, thesaurus and a PhD in English and Philosophy to read half the crap spewed in some of these posts these days!

MMc VMEqD *BFD*
caruk
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Quote:
On 2011-04-11 18:50, MickeyPainless wrote:
I'm all for proper spelling (but as most know, I am punctually/ (punctuation-ally) illiterate) but when did our discussions become so literate and hyper intellectual? Geez, I need a dictionary, thesaurus and a PhD in English and Philosophy to read half the crap spewed in some of these posts these days!

MMc VMEqD *BFD*


It's a result of "book learnin'". What a curse......
Andrew Zuber
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Quote:
On 2011-04-11 16:59, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-04-11 00:12, Jim Oliver wrote:
If I were an artist . . . and I did not have a clue as to who Rembrant or Van Gough were, I would be laughed out of the city!

As Andrew Zuber might write: Rembrandt and Van Gogh.

For the record I would have botched both of those without checking first. God bless Google Smile
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Jim Oliver
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Notice I said IF...
Ed Marlo rules
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