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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » It bothers me (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jim Oliver
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Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Sorry I misspelled both of those names...
But I am not the art history major here.

And I have seen many a person here spell Marlo with an E & a W at the end...
so lighten up.
Ed Marlo rules
rklew64
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Can we get back to the effing literary nescient younger magicians? puuleasze.
R.E. Byrnes
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Sounds as if elitism, quite possibly socialism, is creeping in
terrychylton
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Great post, this makes me thankful I had no money when I first started or I would have been like this. I always wished at the time I had loads of money, so I could buy all these amazing things that were jumping around, setting on fire, changing colour. Instead I could only afford to buy a couple of books, this I now know was the best thing that could have happened. I got RRTCM and Expert Card Technique. Obviously on opening Expert Card Technique I was thinking this is ridiculously hard and not for me, then I gave RRTCM a go and then a proper step by step read, with hours and hours of practise and I started to build some grounding on which to improve from. Not only that but it made me appreciate what I was holding and then came a love of learning and striving to try and perfect what I was studying. This I think can only really come from sitting down and learning not only the basic moves, but learning to just do it because you love it and you want to better yourself, not because you want to buy a DVD today and tomorrow singe someones eyebrows off and them to love you for it. You have to love it because you love it, not because you love the thought of a certain reaction as soon as possible. A problem with certain people in my generation, is quick gratification, easy quick way to reach a goal and only ever thinking about what is good for them in the next day or week. This is with anything, take my other passion the guitar, you first learn your chords and scales and you sit practising for hours until you feel yourself improving and one day you suddenly learn the amazing feeling that now you can use these tools and basics to put yourself into the instrument and find how you want to play it and let your personality shine through. Without the starting point and the real hard graft however you will either unskillfully imitate great people until you die, give up or wise up and find out you have to go back to the beginning and find your feet all over again. I am however only talking about certain people and obviously not a whole generation, it's just on the increase because these day it is easier to get what you want and get it quick, but some people still do the graft and take pride in their studying and bettering themselves, and I think it's those ones you should be giving your time to, not the others. Sorry for rambling. Cheers.
Whit Haydn
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I don't see any problem. The young people today who refuse to read and study the greats of magic's past, will be the exact ones I want to have competing with me for work when I am 75.
jazzy snazzy
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That's very true Whit but they will also be running the nursing homes.
A terrifying thought.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz
Vick
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It's taken me 10+ years to make
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Introducing the new Bio-Optic Organized Knowledge device, trade named BOOK.

BOOK is a revolutionary breakthrough in technology: no wires, no electric circuits,

….no batteries, nothing to be connected or switched on!
...
So easy to use, even a child can operate it. Compact and portable, it can be used anywhere — even sitting in an armchair by the fire — yet it is powerful enough to hold as much information as a CD-ROM.




As for the XCM stuff, that's basically juggling. Perhaps challenging to learn or do but it's not magic, nothing magic about it, it's juggling.

Eye candy that holds interest for about 24 seconds.

More and more I am seeing a switch back to learning more from books and learning about how to present the art (even the Buck twins push book learning on their lecture tours).

Videos show .... books teach.
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
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Brad Burt
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Human teachers show.

Books teach.

Hmmmmmmm..... It would be perhaps more accurate to say that 'some' videos 'show' and some videos 'teach', depending on the focus, knowledge, expertise of the person using 'video'.

Some books are wonderful teaching vehicles and some are not so good. Has no one else here never learned something from a book wrong, simply because what they imagined the move to look like (despite the 'helpful' illustrations) was not actually how the move should look or work? I admit that I was singularly without ANY local shop, helpful older magician, etc. I literally learned everything from books without seeing and example of what I was learning and in one particular case using what is still my all time favorite magic book I learned one particular move so badly that I just couldn't believe the I had in fact interpreted the text and photo correctly. I practiced it 'wrong' for three years and then on the 300th reading of the explanation ..... Eureka! I realized my mistake and it only took me about a year to correct three years of practice!!! IF....I ...... had SEEN the thing done correctly just once...

By the by...the book was the Amateur Magician's Handbook by Hay and the move was the Side Steal. I just simply misread the text and added to it to make up for the misreading...... I knew the entire time that something was wrong, but in my isolation I just had no one to run it by, etc.

Hilariously I can no longer perform the side steal because I took up the guitar. The had callus on the tips of my left finger just slide over the card....no grip! Oh, well................. '-)
Brad Burt
Whit Haydn
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I have "invented" some moves by misreading text. It can be a good thing.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2011-04-09 13:36, Jim Oliver wrote:...
There is a magic shop within a 40 minute drive of where I live. I have been there a number of times. Every time I am there the young guys that are behind the counter are usually doing a bunch of fancy cutting of the cards in their hands. After about 30 seconds of this I am ready to fall asleep because it is like watching someone juggle....


What leads you to expect there are that many folks who "get it" about magic and can also "teach it" or write?

I happened to get my start at Tannen's in NYC. You can read about some of that in the Genii article and infer/deduce much more from what's posted here at the Café.

But what leads you to expect that level of sheer talent and expertise and willingness to share will be wherever you go?

Please seek out the people who can help you get to the ideas, books, prop makers and other similarly minded artisans in our craft and ... kindly don't waste your time complaining about those whose only purpose in our craft is to be cash cows - or those who make their living creating/selling product to those cash cows.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jim Oliver
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Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Hey guys,

Let's not forget what my original post was about.

My point was that these young magicians don't have a clue as to who the masters are, or were,
and that (in my opinion) is because they don't read the books.

I am not saying that they should not watch dvd's. Just that in order to complete the circle
they might want to know where the roots of the craft and art come from. This means that they might
have to open a book.

The real corker was that they did not know who 3 of the greatest card workers on this planet were!
That was the frustrating part to me.

Jim
Ed Marlo rules
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2011-05-23 23:02, Jim Oliver wrote:

My point was that these young magicians don't have a clue as to who the masters are, or were,
and that (in my opinion) is because they don't read the books.


And my point is that the young magicians don't know any better, because they are...ah...well...young.

If they stick with it, they'll read the books, they'll learn who the masters are, and they'll find what's useful to them and what isn't.

Yet another observation: maybe some of these young folk will create something astonishingly interesting and new, precisely because they don't have the preconceptions of us old folk.

As I said, lighten up. They're just kids.

Now, if you want a good discussion about some self-proclaimed Master Magician who doesn't even know Keller from Vernon, then you'll have one. But the kids are just beginning their journeys.

Whether real knowledge is in books or videos is yet another question, I suppose. But youth has nothing to do with such a discussion, IMO.
ancientmagic
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"My point was that these young magicians don't have a clue as to who the masters are, or were,
and that (in my opinion) is because they don't read the books."

Jim, I can empathize with you greatly, I feel the same way! However, most of these kids grew up in a society on visual overload...entertainment, learning communicating etc...has been fed to them through the mega-pixels of a screen versus the letters on page.

It is not just in magic but in all areas of learning. I teach "college" level philosophy classes here in Tucson and I kid you not every semester when I ask the kids(read students here) who is Socrates or Aristotle they draw a blank. A few years ago I could at least use the Bill & Ted movie line, "You know So Crates," to get them to align with me. Now, even that's gone by the wayside.

--Best

John
"In victory you deserve champagne…in defeat you need it!" –Napoleon Bonaparte
miistermagico
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Before you can learn from an expert you must decide you want to learn from an expert. Then hopefully you will seek out an expert. Experts are usually professionals and talented amateurs known in their craft by their peers. This may take some time and exploration. Never be in a hurry to learn something new and expect you will make mistakes along the way. It takes a life time to gather knowledge. For myself I have found all media and lectures available to a newbie by experts to be very valuable. There will always be things you will not know or ever know.
tommy
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Better late than never as they say. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Josh Riel
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The entire point of being young is to be wrong all the time, as an older fella it's harder to get away with.


Also: Hello 6 years ago! I wonder if I'll read this back then.
Also again: Hello 4 days ago!
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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