Hello!
Do any of you have any suggestions for keeping the sand held together in the water for this trick (Hindu Sands)?

Check the book “Modern Chemical Magic”. I think it has stuff about this trick.

Greater Magic gives several methods. It's called "Sands of the Desert" there.

Hocus Pocus sells this effect for about $40.

You might want to try this stuff:
http://www.stevespanglerscience.com/product/1331

I'm not sure, but I think it's the same stuff.

Scott,

I am certain that is the right stuff. I had some sand purchased years ago for Hindu Sands, officially Dough Henning type sand after he did it on TV. A few months later there was a fad of selling this "toy" or science type sand in toy stores. They came in little plastic Genii bottles. I Bought some and mixed with my commercial sand...same all around.

This is also the problem with this effect. After this product came out, a surprising number of people are aware of this stuff. It was sold by Mattel or one of the toy companies, in the 70's/80's as a kids bathtub toy...be it a messy one.,
quack

Hi MagicDuck,
I must have purchased this about the same time you did. I believe I got it from Tannen's back in the 70's.
I no longer have any sand, but am curious what people use for the color change of the water these days.

If I recall correctly, the manuscript I have (somewhere) called for
oxalic acid
tincture of iron chloride
tannic acid
All of which I see are available at:
sciencelab.com

The iron chloride would leave the water a yellowish color. Not very aesthetic!
Are there other methods for turning the water opaque and back to clear that work better?
How do people feel about performing this trick using an opaque container?

Scott,

I used the same chemicals. You are correct, the yellowish water at the end was not all that exciting. I had made kind of a nifty wand for doing this. It was a hollow aluminum tube painted black. A smaller dowel, coated with glue, was pushed down into the ends of the tube and then pushed in an inch or two farther,making a chamber with some depth at each end. Then white plastic caps were made, which would snuggly slide over the wand. These caps looked like ordinary white wand tips from the sides but had pin holes at the very ends that would allow the chemical out when dipped in water. So you put the chemical for darkening in one end and the cap over it. You put the lightening chemical in the other end, with a cap over it. Then when you strirred with one end it went black, stir with the other end and it went light.

As for the opaque bowl, I would think it is not as strong an effect, however I think strong presentation/story could overcome much of that. And if my kid wanted to do it, I would start out that way, bagging the chemicals.

I still have the sand but never went beyond "playing" with this effect. Neat concept but a bit of a pain to carry. Then I got more into comedy situation magic which this does not really tie in with. I always visualized myself doing it at a show, but never did it but in practice.
quack

I performed this a number of times and enjoyed doing it. I think that the visual color change of the water is a big part of the effect for me too.
The wand idea is great! If you still have that I'd love to see it the next time we get together. Were the pin holes small enough to keep the chemicals in, but big enough to let them mix quickly with the water?
As to the mess - it's not the type of trick I'd use at a living room birthday party, but at a bigger venue I think this plays well. I understand that David Ben used this in his show, The Conjurer. There is a great picture of him in Genii (not sure which issue) wearing oriental robes and doing a classical presentation of this. He used large quantities of the sand, much more generous amounts than Tannen's provided me with. If I were to do this again I would want to get lots of the sand. The link I gave above doesn't list different colors, but somebody must have it.

http://www.teachersource.com/catalog/index.html

Scott, this link has it for 4.95 a pound in four or five colors...one heck of a deal if you know how to do the trick and only need the sand. A search shows there are many suppliers for this...mainly kid's educational sources. That in itself could be a bit of a problem: if it is too common a demo with kids in chemistry or science classes.

I do have the wand. As I look at it, it only has the top tip, with pinholes in one end. The other end is open. As I recall the first chemical was solid enough to rest in the open end safely but come out in water. The other needed the pin holes and yes it all mixed quickly but did not fall out in just picking up the wand.

It has been so long I do not recall the form the chemicals all came in. I know one was a powder which fit in the end with the holes. I also know the other stayed in the open end.

Refresh my memory...don't you begin with one chemical in the water and that one is responsible for the other two reacting the way they do. quack

There was a a product called Squand that the toy stores sell. I remember I took my young 11 year old son and his friends to a local Magic show, and they picked up on the solution right away. I had never even heard or seen the trick at the time. This was back in 1995 or maybe 96.

I use a very large bowl with three clear partiions in the center, meeting at 120 degree angles (I believe Henning used partitions). I found when I pour the sand from my hand into the water fast enough, it piles neatly in the water so that I can retrieve the handful of sand by reaching in and grabbing the pile.

As for the colored water problem. . . I make a joke out of it. "This trick involves a bit of sand and some fresh water." Then I look at the bowl and yell towards the wings, "The ____ river is NOT fresh water!" Every college/city you go to has a river or lake nearby of which people poke fun. And in actuality, I find that once I add the third chem. (oxalic), the water is clearer than when I began.

My two cents,

MK

Henning did NOT use partitions. First off I saw the act and you could see his hands moving thru the water prior to chemicals turning it black. Second, he used the same product described in Greater Magic and easily available to magicians (myself included) during the 1950's and 60's.

What Doug Henning used and what's being sold now are two different things. The old stuff was put into the water a handful at a time, three times, one for each color. The new stuff, as far as I can tell, has to be dribbled into the water from a scoop. And without revealing secrets I can tell you it doesn't come up as easily as the old stuff.

Squand DOESN'T WORK! It WON'T WORK for this trick! Don't believe me? TRY IT! I bought some for this exact reason. Squand will stay together in water, but FALLS APART AS SOON AS SOMETHING TOUCHES IT, so you cannot recover it from the water! I hate to YELL, but I have heard so many people say "Use Squand", and it's obvious they never tried it. IT SIMPLY WILL NOT WORK! (Did I make my point?)

Now, the other bad news: people who are familiar with Squand, in all their ignorance will *think* it works, and that's enought ot ruin the trick for all of us ... until such time that Squand is off the market long enough to be forgotten ...

Somebody named t-babe is selling it on ebay. I bought it and it is real good quality, sand and chemical only.

I did find a great "bowl" to mix it in at Pier 1. They call it a candle holder, it looks like a gigantic champane glass. The bowl is 6" tall x 10" wide on a 10" stem, overall hieght 16". The SKU # 1981423, price $30.00.

It looks great! It is a little bulky though.

Tim

That champaign glass sounds great, but is there a problem with people being able to see the clump of sand from below? It seems to me that with the bowl elevated on a stem, even with darkened water the portion of the sand that's resting on the bottom might be seen.

I've been told by several magicians that my method of using partitions is very similar to the method Henning used. If I was misled, my mistake. I am, however, able to move my hands through the bowl of water. The partitions are not very high.



I do not use Squand, but I have tried it out, and it can work. You have to pour it into the water, and you have to pour it with enough speed that the weight of the sand pulls down the water and keeps the sand all together. The sand will end up in a big pile and you can grab that pile with a fist. It's not likely that you'll be able to recover all the sand, but that's not a necessity for the effect. The prepared sand product I use is the same as Squand except it is not goofy-colored and glittery.

Tim,

I tried to look up t-babe on eBay, but that person has no items for sale. There is a user named magic_sandman selling the sand and chemicals...is that who you bought it from?