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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Ball, Cone, and Handkerchief by Dai Vernon (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bill Hegbli
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Dai Vernon Ball, Cone and Handkerchief is discribed in The Dai Vernon Book of Magic as well as the reprint by L&L Publications The Essential Dai Vernon book.

For many years the I have not been able to do this effect to my satisfaction, because of the ball move while covering the ball with the cone. This is one time I have to admit, personal instruction is needed and if not a video is needed. Did I say that, yes I did.

Interestingly enough, this is one of the effects that use simple props, but the props can cost more then your time in learning the effect. In other words is it really worth learning if the simple props are extremely costly. Other effects like the Color Changing Silks with a dye tube and the Silk to Egg are examples of tricks that fall into this catagory.

Just like these other tricks the Ball, Cone and Handkerchief falls into this catagory, but I must say, just as these other tricks the effect and magic is diffently worth it.

Why am I discussing this, because The Ever So Sleightly forum of the Café, this trick was discussed here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......m=115&26

Do to another members interest, I was able to locate George Millward and thus obtain his instruction DVD on the Ball and Cone Routine. After viewing the DVD, I would like to say, this guy is an expert and a fabulous manipulator of the these props.

Have you wanted to know exactly how to do the Vernon Wand Spin? It is in this DVD!
Have you needed to know how to properly excute the "move"? It is in this DVD?
For you real world magicians who only want to use real props, George only used 'Real' billiard Balls. It is in this DVD!

I must also mention that George Millward is also an excellent teacher, the DVD is of the highest studio quality.

This DVD along with "Dai Vernon's Book Of Magic or Essentials" and Tom Stone's eBook "Legends" will help you create the most magical Ball, Cone, and Hankerchief Routine you could ever imagine.

George also sells the props if needed, but you can make them yourself if you are craft'y. You can reach him at ghmmagic@hotmail.com The DVD is only $15.00 and worth every penny. If nothing else you need the George Millward instruction as a compliment to the Dai Vernon books. Attach the DVD to the inside cover of the book, that is were it belongs.

The Handkerchief is a men's pocket hany, I picked up one at Burlington Coat Factory for $3.00, 100% silk. The Wand you can buy or make yourself, it is nothing special, but does have some weight or body to it.

I am so glad to see manipulation magic other then producing playing cards. Those that learn this and other sleight of hand magic will have something not many can do. It will help you stand out above the rest. Take this and Shoot Ogawa's DVDs on Wand and Thimble magic and you have an exciting arsenal to draw from for creating real magic and wonder for your audiences.

I truly hope you can tell I am excited about this new information that has come into my position. This experience was watching another master at creating real magic with simple props, classic magic as well.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Mr. Woolery
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So, is this a DVD that just covers the Vernon Ball and Cone routine or is there more on here? Wand spin, but anything else?

-Patrick
Bill Hegbli
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Yes, it is a one trick DVD only for this effect. It is a must if you are interested in this trick. It is invaluable as a reference and methology.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
jazzy snazzy
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Great find on the handkerchief William. I went with a Slydini silk for considerably more money.

Jo-Ann fabrics has some good material if you are fortunate enough to know someone who can stitch the edges properly. Still, it's a lot more than three bucks.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz
Mark Ross
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I also use a men's pocket handkerchief for this routine, opening with David Roth's one coin and silk routine. It works perfectly for both. Mine came from J C Penney.

Mark
Rainboguy
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When I met The Professor at the Faucett Ross Magic Fest, I asked him about his version of thos trick, and he did this for me.......and he was 88 years old at the time.......and....it was a work of art!

Made tears come to my eyes it was so beautiful!
Conus
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This is a great routine. It is also written up and illustrated in Genii Magazine, July, 1947, pages 340-341.
Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On 2011-05-01 11:30, Conus wrote:
This is a great routine. It is also written up and illustrated in Genii Magazine, July, 1947, pages 340-341.


I did not get that issue as I was 4 months old at the time, and I could not read yet.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Conus
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Quote:
I did not get that issue as I was 4 months old at the time, and I could not read yet.

It's available online to Genii subscribers...
Bill Hegbli
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Further research finds that the trick as Dai Vernon performed it has the addition of a 4th Ball in black with a stars design on it. Then he concluded with a surprise ending of a salt shaker. It was written that Dai Vernon started with the concept of the Cups and Balls to be tranformed to a stage setting. This trick is not fully discribed in the Book of Magic, actually only the 1st few sequences of the full routine as Dai Vernon originally presented it.

I also came into possession of Dai Vernon lecture notes from, I believe, the 1950's. In this lecture Vernon outlines the Ball, Cone, and Handkerchief on one page of text and one page of drawings. This follows the Ganson discription of 3 balls, but instead of a leather cone, the notes state a paper cone is used, that just can cover the ball.

I am sure if the climax was also included in the description, many other magicians would have taken note of this routine; and over the years it would have become as famous as the Cups and Balls and the Chop Cup has in magic history of today.

It took Tom Stone to catch this difference and expand some ideas on a surprise climax utilizing the Ball, Cone, and Handkerchief effect. His ideas with the further expansion of use of the Tommy Wonder shoulder harness and the use of a Topit could bring this effect into an expanded Miracle Class.

I must admit it took Fred Kaps and a Café member to bring this effect into my study of manipulation magic. Having watched Fred Kaps version many times, I find his handling of a Pilsner Glass and Glass bubble not doing justice to the actual manipulation of the items. Although interesting in using novel items, his interpretation of the moves are poorly exectited from that of George Millward. Size of the bubble, may have been a factor in Fred Kaps decision to alter the moves, but in this case, to my way of thinking was not in good judgement.
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Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
JNeal
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William!
You are quite correct (although Mr. Kaps is generally regarded as being above reproach by most magicians), he didn't really do the key move very well.
There was some additional movement of the left hand during the covering action that 'indicates' the secret action.
I don't think size of the bubble was the problem however.
They were relatively small compared to the balls that Vernon used and I have seen the move executed undetectably by Earl Nelson (and others) with full size billiard balls.

Your honest analysis on this topic and others is what keeps this forum so lively and worth visiting
Regards-
Jneal
visit me @ JNealShow.com
Bill Hegbli
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Jneal,
Thank you for your words, I fully realize I was treading on taboo ground, thus my wording was as careful as I can create. I do hold Fred Kaps as high as many do, traveled long distances just to see him in person. One can learn what naturalness is from him, making mannerism part of your manipulations.

I do possibly think it was the small size of the bubble, as a larger ball makes the move easier. His tossing action was pronounced to me. Everyone has an off day, but being there are 2 video of this effect by him on the Internet, both were handled in the same way.

I do wish there was more intelligent discussions regarding the small things that make great men perform great magic. It seem we as humans have not reached the ability of calm interesting discussions.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Bill Hegbli
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Me and Fred Kaps in Wichita, Kansas, it was a thrill for me to meet him.

Click here to view attached image.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Bill Hegbli
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Found a Ball and Cone outfit at East Coast Magic for a really good price, anyone purchase this set? Looks like it may come from Mak Magic as an import. They even throw in a Salt Celler to follow the Dai Vernon original act material. Complete outfit only $42.50.

http://www.eastcoastmagic.com/eacomaprbaco.html

Click here to view attached image.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Bill Hegbli
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Another question, anyone use a "Loop Ball" in connection with Cone? Come up with any good looking magical effects using these tools?

The possiblilites seem to be expanding with these props into a full blown act.
Tommy Wonder Shoulder Harness
Topit
Loop Ball
Ball Holder
Carlos Corda Silk Sensation
Long Salt Pour gimmick

Some miracles should be created with all these powerful tools.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
JNeal
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I am reminded of Slydini's 'Capricious Cornucopia' which essayed the use of a loop ball for salt gimmick , as well as a very clever vanishing ball in rolled cone routine.
(Slydini Encores)

Regards-
JNeal
visit me @ JNealShow.com
Bill Hegbli
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JNeal, I looked that material up, will have to see if any part could work with a cone already formed. It would be interesting to create a cone on stage and continue with Dai Vernon routine, but I believe there would be drawbacks, as the use of a flimsy cone over a cone with more body is needed for some of the ideas in Tom Stone's moves and placement of the cone in the waistline or belt. I do not have the Cellini DVDs so cannot see if there is some information that may be of use in this context.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Darkwing
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Thanks to Mr. Neal, I have a very nice cone I made myself. Originally, I had a plastic cone and ball set I had bought from Aldo Colombini with his Cone-Tact DVD. It is a very nice routine that is based on the Dai Vernon routine. The problem with the cone that came with the routine you could not do some of the squeeze moves that were on the DVD. At the time I could not afford the leather cone but after reading a post from Mr. Neal, I bought some brown craft paper, Yes paste, and some black leather from Michael's for about $9.00 US. I used the plastic cone as a form and glued about 8 layers of craft paper then covered the paper cone with the leather. It looks great and has enough give to do the squeeze move. I really don't need the more expensive leather cone because the one I made works great.
JNeal
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Thanks for the kind words Darkwing!
Yes, it's quite easy to make a practical workable cone from Kraft paper and glues. When I was working on this trick in the late 70's and early 80's, I was generously given a a Bill Gusias cone that used to belong to Dai Vernon as I recall. He had given it to Earl Nelson, who gave it to me when I was starting to do the trick a bit.

Years later, when I stopped working on it, I returned the cone to Earl and I imagine he has it to this day!

I had a number of original ideas for this trick that involved using a wand that made the need for a table, superfluous...as well as opening up the dynamics of the trick. Perhaps I will get to rework the concept this year.
Regards-

JNeal
visit me @ JNealShow.com
jazzy snazzy
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Quote:
On 2011-05-04 22:02, wmhegbli wrote:
Another question, anyone use a "Loop Ball" in connection with Cone? Come up with any good looking magical effects using these tools?

Quote:
On 2011-05-05 12:11, JNeal wrote:
I am reminded of Slydini's 'Capricious Cornucopia' which essayed the use of a loop ball for salt gimmick , as well as a very clever vanishing ball in rolled cone routine.
(Slydini Encores)

Cellini covers these beautifully in his Magic That Can be Performed Anywhere dvd.
"The secret of life is to look good from a distance."
-Charles Schulz
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